Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Sweet electric car
The Noise Boston > The Noise Board > Open Forum
benhamean
IPB Image

Tesla

220 miles on a charge (!)
Top speed 125 MPH (purposely limited there) (!)
0-60 in 3.9 seconds (!)


It is expensive as fuck (>$100 k), but damn...

F-you Detroit, with your 40 mile per charge Volt. Strong, long distance going electric cars are realistic- they are here. I hope these guys come with an 'economy' line and make a mint.
Mike Qube
They just debuted the all-electric Mini at the Los Angeles auto show
IPB Image
http://jalopnik.com/5093425/all+electric-m...puty-mayor-ever

btw, Telsa is working on a lower cost all-electric vehicle. it's going to be a four door sedan, running somewhere around 60k if the rumors are right.

WTF Jones
This sucks
Mike Qube
QUOTE(WTF Jones @ Nov 20 2008, 03:09 PM) *

There's been a few of them totaled so far. They take off a bit too fast for some people and they dont expect it. It's the same thing with the new Nissan GT-R, people who are getting them are doing things like driving them through a starbucks because they cant handle the power.
allswellgirl
IPB Image IPB Image

The Linc Volt

SO YOU WANT A BIG ELECTRIC CAR

by Neil Young

President-elect Obama's plan to put a million electric vehicles on the road in 10 years is do-able and should be surpassed by its own momentum. As people discover the many advantages of electric vehicles (EVs), this momentum will build. Not only are these cars green and responsible, they also enhance National Security. From all we've been told about EVs we know a little. They are cleaner. We've heard about plugging them into our homes to recharge overnight. But most of us don't know much about electric cars yet.

The momentum of the Electric Vehicle Age will stem from enhanced performance, smoothness of acceleration, quietness, and superior control. The way an electric car can be tuned to behave a certain way for a certain driver allows for a whole new feeling in the driving experience. People just don't know how cool these cars are.

Existing designs can be manufactured as electric cars with no change to the tooling of the existing designs. Adapting kits are possible. Build electric versions on these existing tools to keep people working and get people interested in buying again. The technology to make these new electric vehicles exists today right here in this country.

From Wichita Kansas we get this report: A 1959 Lincoln Continental repowered to be a self charging electric vehicle by a small group of engineers and local services, is now achieving up to 65 mpg in informal tests. Work there continues. The goal of the project is to attain up to and beyond 100mpg for the biggest and heaviest car made in 1959. The car has been driven in California and Kansas and shown to over 15,000 people. In an audience of 12,000, one tenth of the people raised their hands when asked if they would like to have a car like that. That Lincoln represents a future for Detroit. It is the possibility of Big Clean cars that do not promote Global warming. Let's build them now, as well as economical small clean and green electric cars and let's put people to work. We already have the existing tooling and the facilities and manpower.

From Detroit we get this report: "We have devoted significant resources to this project: Over 200 engineers and 50 designers are working on the Volt alone, and another 400 are working on related subsystems and electric components. That's how important we think this is, and that's how much stock we place in the future of extended-range electric vehicles like the Chevy Volt."-- Tony Posawatz, Vehicle Line Director - E-Flex Systems and the Chevy Volt, GeneralMotors Corp. The GM, FORD and Chrysler CEOs then each boarded private personal business jets to be paid for by taxpayers money, and flew to Washington to ask tax-payers to give them a 25 Billion dollar infusion to save hard working American's jobs. Have they changed direction but it's just too early for our senators and congress representatives to see it yet? I don't think so. Maybe introducing a new high-performance fossil fueled Shelby Mustang and jumping into a private jet to go to Washington for a bailout was not such a good idea.

Efficient technology can power the existing designs we have today.

We don't need a car that looks different with a new sunroof over the back seat creating an air conditioning challenge as a feature.

We don't need new tooling to start building electric cars now.

We need kits to adapt what we are currently making to today's demands.

We need new thinking from new leaders and we need new perspectives from unions.

Today the news is Hybrids. Everyone is making them. Some of these hybrids offer very poor mileage in the 20-30 mpg range. They may be already on their way out because of the inherent inefficiency of their design. An electric motor and an internal combustion engine both driving the wheels in one car may not be the most efficient approach. Forward thinkers are wondering about that inefficiency and working on ways to solve it. Plug in Kits are now available for Prius and Ford Escape, allowing these vehicles to plug in for a re-charge, increasing their efficiency and reducing their negative impact on the environment. Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) look like the future, but are they the future?

There are huge limitations. The battery is the biggest. An average EV is only good for a short trip before it needs a charge. Maybe 40 miles or so is a good estimate. Some electric cars get a long range like 100 miles before they lose power and have to recharge. The Tesla (a super light sports car) goes over 150 miles on a charge. Two things that all basic EVs have in common is they are small in size and they have to stop and re-charge. If you run out of power you are down. Just like gas.

To re-charge, you need a power source. It may be your home, or it may be your parking garage at work. It might be a charging system that is privately owned and is a business enterprise (Better Place), or it may be a public utility service (PG&E). You may have a cable to plug in that identifies you so your account can be automatically charged. One thing is for sure. You need to re-charge. So you are going to be more conscious of your energy use.

Not every EV has to plug in. For some, it's optional. Cars like the Chevy Volt have an onboard generator to re-charge batteries or power the car. These cars are Self-Charging EVs (SCEVs). That means on long trips you use gasoline. A long trip is over about forty miles in a Volt, on level ground. When the battery starts to die, an onboard generator rescues it and powers the electric motor, while slowly recharging the battery. This sequence cycles on and off while you take a long trip. Mostly the generator is on..... using gasoline, a fuel widely seen as a National Security disadvantage. The Volt generator will charge the batteries faster if the car is not moving, by using gasoline. On short trips, you won't even use the generator. You will go the first 40 miles on plug-in power. An average commute in the USA is about 35 miles.

Efficiency in the self-charging electric car is the big decider. If the efficiency of your charging system allows you to make electricity with less financial cost than buying it from the grid, then your car can power your house and turn the meter backwards to reduce or eliminate your electric bill. Potentially, you may even be able to sell electricity to the grid someday. That would be a good reason to buy a SCEV with a highly efficient self-charging system. These cars are mobile power plants.

Big electric cars are left out of the story so far by major manufacturers. They have made some very poor hybrid SUVS. SUVs, big sedans, pick-up trucks are all by the wayside. They have been relegated to dinosaur status. But don't count them out. A big Self-Charging SUV with a super efficient self-charging system would create enough power to support 6 homes. You could be part of a distributed power system by using the grid backwards, selling power back to your Utility Company. In this approach, power enters the grid from plugged-in vehicles, avoiding the loss found in the lines when power comes to you from a central Power Plant located miles away. Imagine a big electric car that earns you income.

But you just wanted a big electric car. You may be surprised to know why size is important. Big SCEVs, while taking big power to run, and requiring large battery banks and big electric motors, will undoubtedly be getting up to 100 mpg or more in the near future. A big developmental car, Lincvolt, seen at Lincvolt.com , is proving this technology. Big SCEVs may well be earning you money while you are charging the grid. They may be re-charging with super efficient self-charging systems, and even using Domestic Green bio-diesel fuel, a fuel that does not contribute significantly to Global Warming. Big may be an unexpected Green alternative.
allswellgirl
QUOTE(Mike Qube @ Nov 20 2008, 03:08 PM) *

They just debuted the all-electric Mini at the Los Angeles auto show


**Drool drool drool**
must.have.this.car.
Mike Qube
QUOTE(allswellgirl @ Nov 20 2008, 03:23 PM) *

**Drool drool drool**
must.have.this.car.


a little pricey right now, about $800 a month lease because you have to get the recharging station installed in your house.
screeg neegis
Anyone who hasn't seen this yet should:
how high quality electric cars were developed and put on the road in California back in the 90s and why they all disappeared:

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

the website has the trailer for the movie and a timeline of the history of electric cars going back over a century - the industry is lying when they claim that electric cars are - as they said just a few months ago - "far in the future"
JohnnyBlack
QUOTE(benhamean @ Nov 20 2008, 02:59 PM) *

IPB Image

Tesla

220 miles on a charge (!)
Top speed 125 MPH (purposely limited there) (!)
0-60 in 3.9 seconds (!)
It is expensive as fuck (>$100 k), but damn...

F-you Detroit, with your 40 mile per charge Volt. Strong, long distance going electric cars are realistic- they are here. I hope these guys come with an 'economy' line and make a mint.

My buddy's waiting on his, backordered pretty much since they announced the fucking thing.

We'll see if he lets me drive it if and when it arrives...
screeg neegis
QUOTE(Mike Qube @ Nov 20 2008, 04:31 PM) *

a little pricey right now, about $800 a month lease because you have to get the recharging station installed in your house.


Not true - see Who Killed the Electric Car and you'll see a recharger that plugs into a standard wall outlet, rechargeable batteries that were developed that solved the alleged problems with storage and other interesting facts.
screeg neegis
Affordable electric cars are many years away
By Nichola Groom
Reuters / September 18, 2008
DETROIT

General Motors Corp.'s plug-in Chevrolet Volt and other electric vehicles have generated widespread consumer fervor for cleaner, less fuel-dependent cars, but the high battery cost means it will be years before those cars are affordable to most Americans.

Executives attending the Reuters Autos Summit this week agreed that low-emission electric cars are critical to the future of the U.S. auto market due to sky-high gasoline prices and increased concerns about global warming.

But at roughly $10,000 each, the light, long-lasting lithium-ion batteries key to powering electric cars will make those vehicles prohibitively expensive until production levels are ramped up to the hundreds of thousands.

"It will be more expensive than people expect," Mike Jackson, chief executive of AutoNation Inc., the largest public auto dealership group, said of the electric cars that will hit the market in the next five years. "It will be more expensive to make than the manufacturers can really afford, meaning initially they're going to have to limit the volumes."

The Chevrolet Volt, slated to hit showrooms in late 2010, is one of the biggest efforts to bring an electric car to the mass market. The Volt is expected to be able to go 40 miles on a single charge before dipping into its gas tank.

But GM said on Tuesday that it will only produce 10,000 Volts in its first year of production, eventually increasing that to about 60,000. GM has not said how much the Volt will cost, but plug-ins are expected to carry a premium of around $10,000, compared with a premium on hybrid electric cars of between $3,000 and $5,000.

The cost of plug-in technology would drop "significantly" if production volume reaches 100,000 cars a year, Prabhakar Patil, chief executive of battery maker Compact Power, said at the Summit. The unit of South Korea's LG Chem Ltd. is in the running to supply the Volt's T-shaped battery, which weighs about 400 pounds and is roughly six feet long.

"It typically takes about 20 years for a new technology to become mainstream," Patil said. As an example, he pointed to the growth of hybrid-electric cars, which have been on the market for 12 years and still make up a small segment of U.S. auto sales.


RANGE VS. COST

Because that level of mass-market adoption is so far out, many automakers are being less aggressive than GM in predicting when it will have a plug-in on the market.

Toyota Motor Corp., which is testing a plug-in version of its popular Prius hybrid car, said it has not set a timeline for retail sales.

Ford Motor Co. and the other Big Three U.S. automakers are hoping to secure $25 billion in low-cost government loans that will help them invest in new technologies like lithium-ion batteries. That comes as the Detroit automakers are trying to reduce their dependence on sales of gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks that have lost favor with consumers as pump prices have soared. U.S. auto sales are down 11 percent in the first eight months of this year and are running at a 15-year low.

But regardless of whether those funds materialize or how long it takes to make electric cars affordable to average buyers, the race to mass produce is not one automakers can afford to sit out, said a veteran auto executive.

"There is no alternative," said Jerry York, who advises billionaire Kirk Kerkorian on his investment in Ford. "That investment will have to be a very, very high priority."
-
Copyright 2008 Reuters.
-
http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2..._Cars_More_News

---
Now go here to read the truth:

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
benhamean
QUOTE(screeg neegis @ Nov 20 2008, 03:40 PM) *

Anyone who hasn't seen this yet should:
how high quality electric cars were developed and put on the road in California back in the 90s and why they all disappeared:

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

the website has the trailer for the movie and a timeline of the history of electric cars going back over a century - the industry is lying when they claim that electric cars are - as they said just a few months ago - "far in the future"

My father-in-law told me about this movie. They collected and crushed all those fucking cars, to destroy the evidence... unbelievable.


I heard 'Revenge of the Electric Car' is in the works.
screeg neegis
QUOTE(benhamean @ Nov 20 2008, 04:51 PM) *

My father-in-law told me about this movie. They collected and crushed all those fucking cars, to destroy the evidence... unbelievable.
I heard 'Revenge of the Electric Car' is in the works.


Yes - but they did donate one to a car museum - AFTER they removed the drive train and battery system, which was the real secret GM wanted kept from the public.
T-Bone
How much does it cost you in electricity to power one of these? Obviously the electric rates vary, but is there any kind of ballpark estimate?
J_GuestNoMore
Fuck that crap, I'd rather have a 40 year old VW bug than a battery mobile.
FrankD
QUOTE(screeg neegis @ Nov 20 2008, 03:44 PM) *

Not true - see Who Killed the Electric Car and you'll see a recharger that plugs into a standard wall outlet, rechargeable batteries that were developed that solved the alleged problems with storage and other interesting facts.

true.

i've got to see this movie....
Mike Qube
QUOTE(screeg neegis @ Nov 20 2008, 03:44 PM) *

Not true - see Who Killed the Electric Car and you'll see a recharger that plugs into a standard wall outlet, rechargeable batteries that were developed that solved the alleged problems with storage and other interesting facts.

But it is true with the Mini, the Mini requires the special charging station, something about making it charge faster. I did see Who Killed The Electric Car, I thought it was pretty good. I used to see one of those cars in Watertown all the time, I would drive by it and say "what the fuck is that?". I didn't find out until I saw the movie.
FrankD
A123 systems in watertown....makes GREAT batteries and WILL BE IN CARS next model year (next fall)

we'll look back and laugh at "gasoline"

of course we've still got to generate clean power for electricity.
lusting_kay
I just realized I actually RODE in one of those cars. A friend of mine worked for the electric company in PHX and they had one to try out.

He mashed the gas and I was SHOCKED at how quick it was. The problem was they were a really small car when people didn't want small cars and their range was fairly limited if I remember correctly.
JuJuagogo
QUOTE(benhamean @ Nov 20 2008, 02:59 PM) *

IPB Image

Tesla

220 miles on a charge (!)
Top speed 125 MPH (purposely limited there) (!)
0-60 in 3.9 seconds (!)
It is expensive as fuck (>$100 k), but damn...

F-you Detroit, with your 40 mile per charge Volt. Strong, long distance going electric cars are realistic- they are here. I hope these guys come with an 'economy' line and make a mint.

^ its about $130K right now. Did you see the article about the guy who acquired one of the first ones. First day someone drove right up under him in a traffic accident. Didn't someone post that here - I forget where I read stuff on the internet lately smile.gif
benhamean
QUOTE(lusting_kay @ Nov 20 2008, 05:01 PM) *

I just realized I actually RODE in one of those cars. A friend of mine worked for the electric company in PHX and they had one to try out.

He mashed the gas and I was SHOCKED at how quick it was. The problem was they were a really small car when people didn't want small cars and their range was fairly limited if I remember correctly.

My father in law is an electrical engineer- he's been telling me about the efficiency of electric motors for a long time- CONSTANT torque, very little loss to heat or friction (like combustion engines).

The Tesla above demonstrates that you can get a very reasonable range (distance per charge) electrically.

Charging these suckers- Solar is the obvious choice. Another not so obvious one is nuclear. Again, from father-in-law- the sun only 'makes' energy (as far as we can harness it) during the day. In order to charge your car (presumably at night), you'd have to store the solar energy until you could hook you car up.
Once you get a nuclear reactor going, on the other hand, it makes power 24/7. Currently, a lot of that power is wasted- mostly at night when demand is down.
Some places use nuclear power to do something to store up energy at night, like pump water uphill (so that the H2O coming back down could turn a turbine or something during the daytime when demand is high).

If you've got a few million cars charging up at night, they could potentially make use of power from nuclear plants (a portion of which may already be there).
Dan Electro
IPB Image

It's in the way you dress. The way you boogie down. The way you sign your unemployment check. You're a man who likes to do things your own way. And on those special odd-numbered Saturdays when driving is permitted, you want it in your car. It's that special feeling of a zero-emissions wind at your back and a road ahead meandering with possibilities. The kind of feeling you get behind the wheel of the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition from Congressional Motors.

All new for 2012, the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition is the mandatory American car so advanced it took $100 billion and an entire Congress to design it. We started with same reliable 7-way hybrid ethanol-biodeisel-electric-clean coal-wind-solar-pedal power plant behind the base model Pelosi, but packed it with extra oomph and the sassy styling pizazz that tells the world that 1974 Detroit is back again -- with a vengeance.

We've subsidized the features you want and taxed away the rest. With its advanced Al Gore-designed V-3 under the hood pumping out 22.5 thumping, carbon-neutral ponies of Detroit muscle, you'll never be late for the Disco or the Day Labor Shelter. Engage the pedal drive or strap on the optional jumbo mizzenmast, and the GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition easily exceeds 2016 CAFE mileage standards. At an estimated 268 MPG, that's a savings of nearly $1800 per week in fuel cost over the 2011 Pelosi.

Even with increased performance we didn't skimp on safety. With 11-point passenger racing harnesses, 15-way airbags, and mandatory hockey helmet, you'll have the security knowing that you could survive a 45 MPH collision even if the GTxi SS/Rt were capable of that kind of illegal speed.

But the changes don't stop there. Sporty mag-style hubcaps and an all-new aggressive wedge shape designed by CM's Chief Stylist Ted Kennedy slices through the wind like an omnibus spending bill. It even features an airtight undercarriage to keep you and a passenger afloat up to 15 minutes -- even in the choppy waters of a Cap Cod inlet. Available a rainbow of color choices to match any wardrobe, from Harvest Avocado to French Mustard.

Inside, a luxurious all-velour interior designed by Barney Frank features thoughtful appointments like in-dash condom dispenser and detachable vibrating shift knob. A special high capacity hatchback holds up to 300 aluminum cans, meaning fewer trips to the redemption center. And the standard 3 speaker Fairness ActoPhonic FM low-band sound system means you'll never miss a segment of NPR again.

Best of all, the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt is made right here in the U.S.A. by fully card-checked unionized workers and Detroit's famous visionary jet-set managers. Even if you don't own one, you can enjoy the patriotic satisfaction that you're supporting the high wages, good benefits, and generous political donations that are once again making the American car industry the envy of the world.


But why not buy one anyway? With an MSRP starting at only $629,999.99, it's affordable too. Don't forget to ask about dealer incentives, rebates, tax credits, and wealth redistribution plans for customers from dozens of qualifying special interest groups. Plus easy-pay financing programs from Fanny Mae.

So take the bus to your local CM dealer today and find out why the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition is the only car endorsed by President Barack Obama. One test drive will convince you that you'd choose it over the import brands. Even if they were still legal.


FrankD
ps- the Sun still shines at night, and power stations generate LESS power at times when less power is needed.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.