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WTF Jones
Boy, 8, dies after accidental shooting at gun club

Police say wound was self-inflicted

By Matthew P. Collette, Globe Correspondent | October 27, 2008

An 8-year-old boy died yesterday at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield after he accidentally shot himself in the head at a Westfield gun club, Westfield Police reported.

Police said the child's death, caused by a fully automatic Uzi machine gun, appears to have been an accident, but it remains under investigation.

The Westfield Police Department released a statement about what they described as a self-inflicted, accidental shooting, which occurred at 2 p.m. at the Westfield Sportsman's Club on Furrowtown Road.

In a telephone interview last night, Westfield Police Officer Carl Girard confirmed the boy died of his injuries at the hospital. Police did not release the child's name nor did they say where he was from. The Springfield Republican reported that the child was not from Westfield.

"Witnesses state that he was shooting the weapon down range when the force of the weapon made it travel up and back toward his head, where he suffered the injury," the police statement read.

When emergency crews arrived, the boy was conscious but in serious condition with a gunshot wound on the right side of his head.

Police said the boy's father, who was at the event, accompanied him to the hospital.

The Westfield Sportsman's Club was hosting its annual "Great New England Pumpkin Shoot" during the weekend, police said. Officials from the club could not be reached.

Information on the club's website explained participants did not need a permit or license and would be accompanied on the range by a certified instructor.

The event was organized by C.O.P. Firearms & Training, an Amherst company which, according to its website, organizes machine gun shoots throughout New England. Officials from that group also could not be reached.

J_GuestNoMore
What's that I hear ... Darwin laughing in his grave.
Look Sharp!
sad
sixpinelbow
Who the fuck hands a loaded gun to an 8 year old? Seriously.
Gee Mann
When did letting an 8 year old shoot a machine gun start sounding like a good idea?!?!
Danny Vermin
QUOTE(sixpinelbow @ Oct 27 2008, 08:53 AM) *

Who the fuck hands a loaded gun to an 8 year old? Seriously.

McCain voters and other rednecks.
WTF Jones
I've been spending my entire morning trying to fathom how anyone could ever possibly believe an 8 year-old would be mature enough (physically, emotionally or even in terms of their experience handling guns in their short life) to even hold an automatic weapon, let alone fire one.

I am sure this boy's been brought up around guns, has fired more hand guns and rifles than I have by a great amount. But for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone could make such a poor decision to think this might be even a LITTLE bit ok.
Rick O'Shea
QUOTE(WTF Jones @ Oct 27 2008, 09:00 AM) *

I've been spending my entire morning trying to fathom how anyone could ever possibly believe an 8 year-old would be mature enough (physically, emotionally or even in terms of their experience handling guns in their short life) to even hold an automatic weapon, let alone fire one.

I am sure this boy's been brought up around guns, has fired more hand guns and rifles than I have by a great amount. But for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone could make such a poor decision to think this might be even a LITTLE bit ok.

IPB Image

think we're just trying to catch up with the rest of the world?

Look Sharp!
QUOTE(WTF Jones @ Oct 27 2008, 09:00 AM) *

I've been spending my entire morning trying to fathom how anyone could ever possibly believe an 8 year-old would be mature enough (physically, emotionally or even in terms of their experience handling guns in their short life) to even hold an automatic weapon, let alone fire one.

I am sure this boy's been brought up around guns, has fired more hand guns and rifles than I have by a great amount. But for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone could make such a poor decision to think this might be even a LITTLE bit ok.



sounds like he went over to an unatended gun and tried to blast a pumpkin like daddy did

kid should not have even been on the property
WTF Jones
QUOTE(Rick O'Shea @ Oct 27 2008, 10:03 AM) *


think we're just trying to catch up with the rest of the world?

Mmmm.... I'd rather not.
J_GuestNoMore
There are so many varieties of stupid in this story it boggles the mind.
Gamera
QUOTE(Look Sharp! @ Oct 27 2008, 09:04 AM) *

sounds like he went over to an unatended gun and tried to blast a pumpkin like daddy did

kid should not have even been on the property


Where did you hear this, or are you just assuming it? I have heard nothing of the sort.
Look Sharp!
QUOTE(Gamera @ Oct 27 2008, 09:16 AM) *

Where did you hear this, or are you just assuming it? I have heard nothing of the sort.



"sounds like"
Gamera
QUOTE(Look Sharp! @ Oct 27 2008, 10:05 AM) *

"sounds like"


At first blush yes, but I did hear that someone stated the father had given the boy the gun. He just couldn't handle it, obviously. This woman on fox wazs saying something to the effect of jeez, within the gun culture there must be kids this age that have handled UZI's before, otherwise why would they let him do it?
woodymq
Kid's a pretty good shot... Right in the pumpkin.
J_GuestNoMore
QUOTE(woodymq @ Oct 27 2008, 12:20 PM) *
Kid's a pretty good shot... Right in the pumpkin.
laughing.gif Sick but laughing.gif
Tantra, Goddess of Flight
QUOTE(Gee Mann @ Oct 27 2008, 08:54 AM) *

When did letting an 8 year old shoot a machine gun start sounding like a good idea?!?!

Oh...but you see, he needs early training in order to be a "responsible and law-abiding gun owner." Let's see what spin the NRA puts on this one.
smcd
QUOTE(sixpinelbow @ Oct 27 2008, 08:53 AM) *

Who the fuck hands a loaded MACHINE gun to an 8 year old? Seriously.

Seriously.
J_GuestNoMore
QUOTE(Tantra, Goddess of Flight @ Oct 27 2008, 12:52 PM) *

Oh...but you see, he needs early training in order to be a "responsible and law-abiding gun owner." Let's see what spin the NRA puts on this one.
I'll tell you what spin... Daddy is one dumb mofo.
smcd
QUOTE(Tantra, Goddess of Flight @ Oct 27 2008, 11:52 AM) *

Oh...but you see, he needs early training in order to be a "responsible and law-abiding gun owner." Let's see what spin the NRA puts on this one.

The NRA is all about gun safety, so I can tell you that the "spin" they'll put on it will be fairly critical of the kids father.


And kids who are acclimated by their parents to firearms at an early age do end up being more responsible gun owners.
sixpinelbow
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 12:54 PM) *

Seriously.



Thuper Theriouthly!

A loaded gun to an 8 year old is bad enough, but you're right - a loaded machine gun is the triple mega word score stupid.
WTF Jones
I don't even think I could throw a decent spiral til I was about 10.
sixpinelbow
If you can't fire the gun the good lord gave you, you probably shouldn't be firing real ones.
DanPM
QUOTE(WTF Jones @ Oct 27 2008, 01:15 PM) *

I don't even think I could throw a decent spiral til I was about 10.

faggot
Tantra, Goddess of Flight
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 11:57 AM) *

The NRA is all about gun safety, so I can tell you that the "spin" they'll put on it will be fairly critical of the kids father.
And kids who are acclimated by their parents to firearms at an early age do end up being more responsible gun owners.

Not in this case.

murdogga
QUOTE(J_GuestNoMore @ Oct 27 2008, 08:12 AM) *

What's that I hear ... Darwin laughing in his grave.

nah. i think he'd be laughing if the kid had shot the father in the head... you know, the father who handed his 8-year-old an UZI...
J_GuestNoMore
Bet they don't have this problem in Israel.
WTF Jones
QUOTE(DanPM @ Oct 27 2008, 01:19 PM) *

faggot

there was one?
DanPM
QUOTE(WTF Jones @ Oct 27 2008, 01:27 PM) *

there was one?

yes and he wants you to vote yes on 2
Tantra, Goddess of Flight
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 11:57 AM) *

The NRA is all about gun safety, so I can tell you that the "spin" they'll put on it will be fairly critical of the kids father.
And kids who are acclimated by their parents to firearms at an early age do end up being more responsible gun owners.

No, the NRA is all about promoting firearms. The safety part is a politically expedient guise, because otherwise, they'd be all about banning automatic weapons, because, as we have seen, they are inherently unsafe. An 8 year old does not belong anywhere near a gun, period. Obviously if he was present at this event, it was condoned by a lot more people than just his parents.

(For the record, you do know I have a Class A firearms permit and a gun, right? And I am not a member of the NRA. I do read their publications though because I need to be informed as to their thought process, if you can call it that. I was going to the firing range with my father as a kid but not until high school.)
Christóbal
I know my dad and my uncle both learned to hunt when they were 10, but that was a different era and they were taught how to shoot and how to hunt long before grandpa ever let them touch a gun. Plus they didn't hunt with Uzis. Grandpa was very strict about weapons safety (he taught me to shoot when I was 13 or 14). This whole story is sad from too many angles. Hopefully something good comes of this.
smcd
QUOTE(Tantra, Goddess of Flight @ Oct 27 2008, 12:22 PM) *

Not in this case.

Huh??
motormouth mabel
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 11:54 AM) *

Seriously.


Hey, can you tell me what type of damaged that would do?

Little lady
tom from out of town
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 01:47 PM) *

Huh??

i think she is saying: kids who are acclimated by their parents to firearms at an early age do end up being more responsible gun owners except when they kill themselves accidentally with an Uzi at 8 years of age
DanPM
Whenever I hear of an 8 year old dying I try to figure out how I can blame it on the other political party.
MARSMAN
QUOTE(Tantra, Goddess of Flight @ Oct 27 2008, 01:29 PM) *

No, the NRA is all about promoting firearms. The safety part is a politically expedient guise,

laughing.gif
smcd
QUOTE(Tantra, Goddess of Flight @ Oct 27 2008, 12:29 PM) *

No, the NRA is all about promoting firearms. The safety part is a politically expedient guise, because otherwise, they'd be all about banning automatic weapons, because, as we have seen, they are inherently unsafe. An 8 year old does not belong anywhere near a gun, period. Obviously if he was present at this event, it was condoned by a lot more people than just his parents.

(For the record, you do know I have a Class A firearms permit and a gun, right? And I am not a member of the NRA. I do read their publications though because I need to be informed as to their thought process, if you can call it that. I was going to the firing range with my father as a kid but not until high school.)

It's clear that you aren't an NRA member, as you haven't got the slightest glimmer of an idea what you're talking about. These impressions you have of the NRA are ill-informed fantasy on your part.

Automatic weapons are already banned. Since 1932. You need a special Class 3 license - issued by the FBI - to own one.

The NRA is about protecting gun owners rights, AGGRESSIVELY promoting firearms safety, and supporting hunting/wildlife management. You obviously don't realize that almost all gun safety classes - now mostly required in MA - are NRA sponsored.
MARSMAN
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 02:01 PM) *

It's clear that you aren't an NRA member, as you haven't got the slightest glimmer of an idea what you're talking about. These impressions you have of the NRA are ill-informed fantasy on your part.

Automatic weapons are already banned. Since 1932. You need a special Class 3 license - issued by the FBI - to own one.

The NRA is about protecting gun owners rights, AGGRESSIVELY promoting firearms safety, and supporting hunting/wildlife management. You obviously don't realize that almost all gun safety classes - now mostly required in MA - are NRA sponsored.

ohmy.gif
just_chris
I can't get passed the thought that the poor kid didn't die instantly and had to be conscious of the horror... along with his father who had to helplessly watch.
RI chick
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 01:01 PM) *

Automatic weapons are already banned. Since 1932. You need a special Class 3 license - issued by the FBI - to own one.


Each state carries different laws regarding automatic weapons. For instance, they are banned in RI, however, not in MA.

According to the NRA/ILA Firearms laws for MA, "Machine guns" can be owned with a license issued by the "local licensing authority" to any applicant who is a firearm instructor for police personnel or is a "bona fide collector" of firearms.

Local licensing authority ain't no FBI
And that is one sweet "bona fide collector" loophole for snyone wanting to own an automatic weapon.


DanPM
"I gave permission for him to fire the Uzi,” Bizilj said. “I watched several other children and adults use it. It’s a small weapon, and Christopher was comfortable with guns. There were larger machine guns with much more recoil, and we avoided those.”

Bizilj, the medical director of the emergency department at Johnson Memorial Hospital in Stafford Springs, Conn., said that his son was “very cautious, very well trained, and very much enjoyed firing.”
Woody Goodbeat
QUOTE(Christóbal @ Oct 27 2008, 01:42 PM) *

I know my dad and my uncle both learned to hunt when they were 10, but that was a different era and they were taught how to shoot and how to hunt long before grandpa ever let them touch a gun. Plus they didn't hunt with Uzis. Grandpa was very strict about weapons safety (he taught me to shoot when I was 13 or 14). This whole story is sad from too many angles. Hopefully something good comes of this.



Were you born and raised on Waltons Mountain?
Look Sharp!
QUOTE(DanPM @ Oct 27 2008, 02:14 PM) *


Bizilj, the medical director of the emergency department at Johnson Memorial Hospital [/i]



ohmy.gif
In the Woods
QUOTE(Woody Goodbeat @ Oct 27 2008, 02:30 PM) *

Were you born and raised on Waltons Mountain?

laughing.gif
Evil Eddie C
My heart goes out to this family, and the father who watched the incident unfold.

I don't let my kids handle guns, but I understand that some people do. This guy seemed to be pretty responsible, he had the instructor there, and he was supervising the kid, it just got away from him.

I absolutely understand how and why there is a rush to judgement for the dad, here, but it doesn't change the fact that this dude has just gone through one of the most horrible experiences a human being can have. I have nothing but sympathy for the guy.

I hope, at some point during the rest of his life, he can close his eyes and get some sleep woithout having to relive this incident.

Again, I don't own a gun, I don't like guns, but I am more familiar with them than most (thanks to my father, who probably isn't too far removed from this guy, gun-owner wise). You can be as cautious with them as humanly possible, but they are never not dangerous. This is a tragedy, no matter how you feel about guns, and making darwin jokes about a dead eight year old is a bit, well, messed up.
smcd
QUOTE(RI chick @ Oct 27 2008, 01:51 PM) *

Each state carries different laws regarding automatic weapons. For instance, they are banned in RI, however, not in MA.

According to the NRA/ILA Firearms laws for MA, "Machine guns" can be owned with a license issued by the "local licensing authority" to any applicant who is a firearm instructor for police personnel or is a "bona fide collector" of firearms.

Local licensing authority ain't no FBI
And that is one sweet "bona fide collector" loophole for snyone wanting to own an automatic weapon.

Rule #1 when googling a response: Don't use the first web site that gives you the answer you want. You end up looking stupid.



Machine guns are legal across the country if you're a Class III dealer.

Machine guns are pretty much all but banned in MA. From a practical point, anyway. Unlike handguns, issuance of a machine gun license is entirely up to the local authority. Many - I'd say most - police chiefs in MA won't issue one. And even if you do find a chief that's willing to give you a MG license, the number of hoops you have to jump through on the state and federal level make owning a MG such a pain in the ass that it's not worth the average person's while. Needless to say, anyone who has gone through the trouble to get a MG license has certainly proven himself law abiding enough to have earned it.

The above applies to anyone who is a "collector".
Hook Operator
I read that the kid was despondent over the economy.
RI chick
QUOTE(smcd @ Oct 27 2008, 03:02 PM) *

Rule #1 when googling a response: Don't use the first web site that gives you the answer you want. You end up looking stupid.
Machine guns are legal across the country if you're a Class III dealer.

Machine guns are pretty much all but banned in MA. From a practical point, anyway. Unlike handguns, issuance of a machine gun license is entirely up to the local authority. Many - I'd say most - police chiefs in MA won't issue one. And even if you do find a chief that's willing to give you a MG license, the number of hoops you have to jump through on the state and federal level make owning a MG such a pain in the ass that it's not worth the average person's while. Needless to say, anyone who has gone through the trouble to get a MG license has certainly proven himself law abiding enough to have earned it.

The above applies to anyone who is a "collector".



My response is far from stupid, unlike your statement that a machine gun license can only be issued by the FBI. laughing.gif I didn't think that was the case and I looked up the actual state law, which you may want to review. I googled the precise reference.

The point I'm making is that the law is open to interpretation, varies from state to state, and is manipulated. By the way, the article quoted in this thread stated the participants in the pumpkin shoot (where automatic weapons were solely being used) did not need a license to participate.

What I really want to know is: Who the hell sponsors a pumpkin shoot with automatic weapons anyway....and allows kids to participate?????
Can't people just carve pumpkins with their kids and be happy? WTF??????
Christóbal
QUOTE(Woody Goodbeat @ Oct 27 2008, 03:30 PM) *

Were you born and raised on Waltons Mountain?

I was born in upstate NY. But the family's from MN and there are lots of hunters in MN. You betcha! tongue.gif
DanPM
What I really want to know is: Who the hell sponsors a pumpkin shoot with automatic weapons anyway....and allows kids to participate?????
Can't people just carve pumpkins with their kids and be happy? WTF??????



RI Chick thinks its ok for 8 year old kids to play with knives.
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