Is Religion something that should guide your life?

Is it healthy to embrace Religion as your guiding path?

Does it belong in the political atmosphere? Do you care?

Are you Religious? How so?

Go!

Religion has many meanings, and it depends on if you're buying or selling.

If you're selling -- it's a phenomenal way to control people. It's the BMW of controlling people.

If you're buying -- it's a simple way to not be responsible. It's the credit card morality.

Mind you, some where in the middle of these two ugly philosophies is an incredibly powerful, empowering spiritual, physical, and mental experience. But that seems to be reserved for like five people each year, globally, so fuck it.

Well put, without a doubt mind control. So was it St.Anns or Sacred Heart school for you I was beaten by middle aged penguins at the latter.

live your life the best you can, every day. you don't need anyone to tell you what right and wrong is.

you got it!

If there is a God, which I believe there probably is, no one...NO ONE has the mental capacity to understand what that being wants, so to me, I think religion is an instrument of control. Since early man, we've constantly been creating belief systems to make us feel less small, and less alone in the world, to answer the questions "what happens when I die" "what is the meaning of life"...at times civilizations believed in many Gods, at times human and animal sacrifice was acceptable in offerings to please the sun and the earth..now there hundreds of religions around the world (taking into consideration that major religions can't even decide what it is exactly the believe, creating different sects based on a core belief system). All of these religions believe that their understanding of God and what that God wants for them, is the right answer....which to me is extremely arrogant, thinking you and your kind have a better understanding of something that you can't understand than another group who believes just as sincerely that THEY have the true understanding of what God wants. The bottom line is most religions have been an instrument of control and a means to power. If people want to have faith in stories that MEN made up to control other men...then good for them...if it makes them feel more important and less alone, then I'm happy for them..if it makes them feel like their spirit will live on forever, thus fearing death less, it's nice they can achieve that kind of peace.

Personally, I think just living a good life, trying not to hurt people, being kind to other people, helping out those less fortunate than yourself is good enough..and if there is a God out there, and a path to eternal life in it's presence (notice I'm not giving a being we can't comprehend a sex to make something I don't understand more like me)...then I'd hope how I lived my life is enough to warrant access through the gates.

Religion is important in that it gives theists a reason to feel superior to athiests and athiests a reason to feel superior to theists. I'm agnostic so I'm above all that and therefore superior to both.

There is balance. It is unavoidable. Ultimately, people who live life with anger, violence and hatred get buried underneath it all. They get back what they send out. People who live life with compassion, grace and devotion eventually weed out the negative people (they can be parasitic but can be removed with time) and find peace, love and individuality. My crunchy granola philosophy, I know, but fact.

children who are sexually abused is proof enough for me that there is no god.

It shouldn't guide my life, but I can't speak for others who find it helpful with living a good life.

If used as a guiding path for YOUR life, I'm sure it can be very helpful. It's when people decide that everyone elses life should be guided by it as well is when we have a problem. People just can't seem to stop themselves from forcing/pushing their religion on others and telling them how to live their life.

No, it doesn't belong in politics at all, and yes I care.

I am not religious. I'm a Rationalist.

I have a friend that has been in a sucky marriage for over 15 years. She's ultra-Catholic and it seems she thinks if she offers up her pain to God she will be taken care of in the next life. So she's sort of resigned to being married to this moron. I don't know. Is religion good or bad in this case?
i'm still trying to decide....

any time religion is used as an excuse for willful suffering is bad.
if there's a god, then god's responsible for all this.
i have trouble imagining a god who would wish the holocaust, AIDS and 9/11 on us.
i also have trouble with the whole "god was always there" thing.
which is also to say i don't have any better explanations.

Yeah, I definitely veer toward religion being not good in this case (being the non-believer that I am). I would think if you believe in a benevolent God then you believe God wants you to be happy with the things you CAN change. This friend of mine was born with numerous physical problems. That's something she CAN'T change...she's had to deal with it and she has with the help of God. But continuing to be a rotten marriage with an asshole...I don't think God will sign off on that.

Supplication before a 'higher power' is not a worthwhile activity. The following terms crack me up in their obsequiousness- 'Worship', 'Praise', Adoration. 'Lord'...

I agree that its a good idea to set some standards for your life with regard to morality and whatnot, but the need to base this on any kind of 'diety' or 'Lord' or 'King', is completely unnecessary. Likewise, blaming one's faults and falilings on such cop-out shit as the 'Devil', or 'Original Sin', takes a huge degree of accountability away...

The fact that so many religions need to retain followers by bribery (with Heaven) or threat (Hell) or by bending 'eternal' dictates straight from the mouth of God when humanity evolves past the boogeymen of the past that they contained, is very revealing.

Then you should have equal trouble with the idea that matter was always there and the big bang just happened. Until they can trace things back to time 0, we're stuck, even then I think there will be some mystery around the whole creation thing (what about time -1 second?).

Is Religion something that should guide your life?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'guide your life'? It's not like I'm getting dressed in the morning and stop and ask, "What would Jesus wear?" Does it effect my 'morals'? Probably, to a degree. Would I be any less 'moral' without it? I really can't say, but I'd like to think that I wouldn't.

As for others, it would be nice if everyone had the same views that I did, but that's not realistic. It's really not for me to say what's right for anyone else, each individual has to decide what's right for them. And as long as people are willing to accept me as I am, I'm willing to extend the same courtesy to them. I'm not about to tell someone that they NEED religion or that they are in any way inferior because of their beliefs (or lack of). What's right for me, is just that...right for ME.

Is it healthy to embrace Religion as your guiding path?

Again, not sure what is meant by 'guiding path', but of course I think religion can be healthy.

Does it belong in the political atmosphere? Do you care?

I belive in seperation of church and state. However, if someone is going to say that a person's opinion, if it's effected by their religious beliefs, is somehow less valid that another person's 'secular' opinion, that just plain bunk.

Are you Religious? How so?

I was raised Catholic, considered myself agnostic for most of my late teens and early 20's, but have been back in the church, to varying degrees, for about 10 years now

I completely agree....but I thought we were supposed to be civil about it.

My completely scientific examination of the existence of God.

It is commonly accepted that God allows suffering in the world because without evil/sadness/pain/despair we would never understand good/happiness/pleasure/ecstasy. I, however, disagree. What defines the Judo-Christian God is that he is an all powerful being. He is limitless in his power. If this is so, why did he fail to provide/create a scenario in which good/happiness/pleasure/ecstasy could be experienced without the pitfall of having to experience the dark flip-side of those feelings. Certainly, an all powerful creator would be able to figure out a way around this catch-22, even if the solution is outside of human imagination.

Put into context with the "why does suffering exist" conundrum, we are logically led to the following conclusions...

1. God is not all powerful, and therefore fails to live up to the Judo-Christian definition of "God." In this scenario, there is no reason to worship him.

2. God is capable of short-cutting the "why does suffering exist" conundrum, but chooses not to. This means that God is an asshole and is not worthy of being worshiped.

3. There is no God.

I am neither a philosopher nor a theologian, just a guy that sees all the horrible things that happen to people in this world, and all the horrible things that people are capable of doing to each other and fails to find any shred of hope that there is anything at all mystical about our existence.

Why is that bunk? Basing your opinions, actions, or morality on an organized religion versus a thought out personal code is a shortcut, and therefore less valid than someone who has taken the time to sort things out on their own.

Accepting a moral edict, simply because an old guy in a funny hat half a world away says to, is the worst way to form an opinion.

I said 'effected by their religious beliefs', not 'dictated to them by an old guy in a funny hat'. I'm against the death penalty partly because I believe life is sacred. Is my opinion any less valid as a result?

Hmmm...Well, I am pretty non religious, but I am also against the Death Penalty. There are plenty of reasons to be against the death penalty (primarily because humans are flawed beings who sometimes make mistakes, and making a mistake by frying the wrong person is unacceptable, to me) not based on religious beliefs. I do not believe that human lives are sacred, but I believe that my fellow human beings are to be respected, and not to be killed for any reason other than self preservation.

Your opinion is your own, and I would hope that you would have the courage of your convictions to tell me to fuck off for thinking that it is, yes, less valid because of your use of religion in forming it.

Seriously, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I find religious justifications for opinions weak.

Telling you to fuck off wouldn't be very constructive. But it's ok, I don't think your opinion is valid either. We can call it even.

Heh. I have had very constructive conversations involving that phrase.

We can agree to disagree.

How about this-
God is eternal and omnipotent, but still felt it necessary to create His own admiration society (humankind).
God gets pissed off if He is not constantly and actively revered and worshipped by these whacky creatures (this has softened over the years in more modern societies who can no longer choke down that hooey).
God can only be pleased by supplicating to him in certain, very specific yet cryptic, changing, and disparate ways.
Failing to adhere to those methods of supplication leads one to eternal damnation in HELL.

People actually see wisdom and reality in this kind of thought. Its amazing.

I attribute it to:
Guilt.
Ritual- what you learned from your parents.
Probably some Jungian 'shared-consciousness' thing- primative innate fear of the unknown that requires an immediate reconciliation (no matter how convoluted or illogical).
Politics- its a way to segregate from and demonize others, and find 'allies'.

</blashphemyandcynicism>

deepest post ever. good job.

I don't really believe in God, and certainly not in any man-made religion.

I don't really have a problem with people who do believe, or are religious, unless they are extremely vocal about it and want to convert me or discuss their religion with me when I've already made it clear to them that I'm not interested.

I think most people use it as an escape clause for their own bad behavior. "If I pray hard enough and really mean it, God will forgive me if for this horrible shit I'm about to do." It's a fear tactic. Happiness and Joy, as well as pain and suffering, exist for every living thing with or without ever know anything about God or religion.

I also find that on average, the people who tend to be vocal about their subscribing to the "tolerant" religions - Christianity, Judaism, etc. where forgiveness is supposed to be a Paramount theme of their belief, tend to be the most overbearing, obnoxious, judgmental, holier-than-thou people on the planet.

Therefore, If this kind of God does exist as described by those who shout his praises from on high - apparently his closest friends are most of the biggest pricks on the planet. That's not the kind of guy I wanna hang out with.

Some great views here...

This pretty much sums it all up for me:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

100% correct. Just don't tell my wife this.

That was painfully obvious from your post.

Not really.

I tend to find the giant piles of bullshit one needs to wade through in order to stomach most writings by most purported theologians and philosophers to be both Painful and Obvious.

I also tend to look at people who think they "get it" when reading this crapola to be no different than clueless people who mumble-sing the wrong words to popular songs on the radio and think they know what they're saying.

Yeah, you're another deep thinker, Vermin.

Yes.

wingo, little buddy.

i dunno, people have different reason for having faith. i've thought about it at length due to my upbringing (roman catholic to the max). but really, if they don't try to make it my business then who gives a shit?

And you have it all figured out, right?

Nah,and I don't pretend to, unlike those who post some sophomoric crap about "bad things happen so there cannot be a god", or make wide-flung generalizations about huge swaths of the population.

And most contemporary organized religions AREN'T rule-based fear tactics that hinge on wide flung generalizations about huge swaths of the population?

Now that's funny.

Believing in fairy-tale laden, patronizing crap past the age of 9 is sophomoric.

Oh my buddha, i agree with Vermin.
what can this mean?!

I think the sentiment is more "bad things happen, so if there is an omnipotent being, it is a twisted son of a bitch and does not deserve any praise or worship".

Oh, yeah, gee, I never heard that bit before either.

Humans have been wrestling with the question of free-will and God since written language. It's nice to see the Noiseboard has figured it all out. You guys should slap yourselves on the back some more.

How is this any different than claiming that the bible is true, or any other religion for that matter? Isn't it simply a matter of personal belief? But somehow you find this belief more distasteful than others?

Sorry, I'm just confused as to your extreme animosity towards this one belief that some people hold, animosity you seem to lack concerning other people's beliefs.

For someone who thinks they are above the sentiments being made in this thread, you certainly smack of smug and ridiculous.

I was at a Catholic mass this morning and I had no idea what was going on.

If I'd been in a chemist's lab this morning instead, I would've had no idea what was going on.

Religion and Science: Both Bunk.

My approach to Religion comes more from my scientific background than anything else. I tend to try to explain things pragmatically, looking for evidence that will corroborate a story or claim. I spent alot of time in Peru for schooling...studying pre-Columbian cultures. Across the board, Religion has always been about 2 things...explanation and control. Since modern man, people have concocted elaborate creationism stories in order to justify their existence here on earth. Many of them, a very localized explanation...meaning that their daily lives and landscape were part of the creationism stories.

Egyptian gods came from the Nile
Mayan gods were serpents who created man
Native Americans were heavily tied to animal spirituality

Christianity was really the first Religion that was cast for EVERYONE to follow...easily allowing the crusades and all the other atrocities to be carried out in the name of it. The only reason that it is widespread today is because of violence, fear, and oppression...something that the Church just doesn't acknowledge...funny huh? It was all about love in the beginning and really not about conformity, strict adherence, and complete devotion, right?

No one on earth has ever willed a vehicle into space and landed on the moon, or launched a satellite using religion.

No one has ever successfully completely an appendectomy surgery using a Koran and prayer.

God didn't invent the Atomic Bomb, Oppenheimer did.

Science is not Bunk, it's the study of physical fact. Religion is foolhardy nonsense.

Oh.

Not entirely true. There have been plenty of shiv/shanks made out of paper, and the odds are that at least one of them was from a Koran. So presuming one shanking may have hit an appendix...

Because a biblical literalist doesnt try to dress up their belief as logic and science. And no biblical literalists have posted on this thread stating the Bible is fact. The only people posting are folks who think they're so clever and superior to them religious dummies who choose to believe. If a biblical literalist posted I'd roll my eyes and probably ignore them, or maybe say "wow, that's nutty".

And do you think saying "god is cruel" or "god allows bad things to happen" is really being insightful? Do you think religious people are unaware of that life can be cruel? That seems insulting to those who believe.

My animosity is toward those who think their belief is better than others, whether they're atheist or fundamental christian or militant muslem.

And you talk real good.

Discussing this with you is like trying to teach pondscum to fix a wristwatch.

Proving that God exists is simple. Let's simply work backwards from us.

We are taught that God is all-knowing and all-powerful.
God created us.

This is illogical, because why would God have created us? An all-knowing and all-powerful God wouldn't get lonely, hence he wouldn't have needed to make us. The fact that we're here is proof that God isn't.

Just think about how Evangelical Christians justify their strict interpretation of the bible alongside the Science of today. They think we lived alongside the dinosaurs! Holy Shit! Just like Mormonism...their story is completely laughable, and many don't even really adhere to the whole story anymore now that it's been changed so many times...complete joke.