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Evil Eddie C
Which starter is out of a job, now that big Schill and his loud mouth is coming back? (Don't get me wrong, I like that he's gonna be pitching, but he needs to shut up every once in a while).

With Curt, we've got the following starters:

Beckett
Matsuzaka
Wakefield
Lester
Bucholz
Tavares

Tavares goes back in the pen, until someone blows an elbow or something, but what about Lester and Bucholz? Do we trade one of them? And if so, for whom? This team doesn't have many addressable holes (I'd love to upgrade at shortstop, but Lugo and his contract aren't going anywhere....Same for Right Field....)
sue
And I'm thrilled about it. I admit, it's far more sentimental than about pitching, although I do believe he won't do the rotation any harm, and will be great for it if he's "on".

I just can't help really liking the guy, and I would miss his presence on the team. Yes, he's an obnoxious know-it-all, a born-again Christian and a Republican, but he's also probably one of the most intelligent players in baseball, has a good sense of humor, does a shitload of charity, even by professional athlete standards, and most importantly, is a huge dork who wastes hours posting on message boards.

And, even if HE doesn't pitch well, it seems like he really is helpful with the younger pitchers, too.
Rusty Jones
Done deal according to ESPN:

"Curt Schilling and the Boston Red Sox have reached an agreement on a one-year deal worth about $8 million in base salary and another $2 million in potential incentives, ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports."

LINK
tom from out of town
Lester and Bucholz are valuable trade bait but I hope they hang on to them, someone alwayys gets hurt, especially with Schilling and Wakefield eligble for AARP membership. Beckett was out for a bit too last year. For his faults, Arroyo would have been a more valuable player in 2006 than Wily Mo Pena turned out to be.

I would guess if everyone came up big in spring training Wakefield and Tavarez would be in the pen and the starters would be Beckett - Matsuzaka - Schilling - Lester - Bucholz. It seems more likely to me that they would let Bucholz start off in Pawtucket at least and see what they can get out of Wakefield, who has been pretty dependable for the last several years.

But if they don't re-sign Lowell and have a chance to get a good 3B or 1B, it would not be surprising to see one of those pitchers packaged with Crisp in a deal. No idea who at this point though.
Danny Vermin
QUOTE(tom from out of town @ Nov 6 2007, 09:54 AM) *

But if they don't re-sign Lowell and have a chance to get a good 3B or 1B, it would not be surprising to see one of those pitchers packaged with Crisp in a deal. No idea who at this point though.

IPB Image
sue
QUOTE(tom from out of town @ Nov 6 2007, 09:54 AM) *

especially with Schilling and Wakefield eligble for AARP membership.


Don't forget Timlin, I'll be surprised if he's not back.

It's funny, the way we all talk about how old these guys are-then I remember how old *I* am. smile.gif
Mark VI
QUOTE(tom from out of town @ Nov 6 2007, 09:54 AM) *

Lester and Bucholz are valuable trade bait.

the would have traded lester a year ago if it wasn't for that cancer thing. that would be a p.r. disaster. bucholz isn't going anywhere.
Danny Vermin
QUOTE(Mark VI @ Nov 6 2007, 10:07 AM) *

the would have traded lester a year ago if it wasn't for that cancer thing. that would be a p.r. disaster. bucholz isn't going anywhere.

Bucholz, Lester, Coco, and "prospects" for Yohan Santana.

do it.
Righteous Indignation Alert
QUOTE(Mark VI @ Nov 6 2007, 11:07 AM) *

the would have traded lester a year ago if it wasn't for that cancer thing. that would be a p.r. disaster. bucholz isn't going anywhere.


So, you think the Red Sox are going to now trade away their 24 year old power lefty because they've resigned a 40 year old in severe decline?
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 10:16 AM) *

So, you think the Red Sox are going to now trade away their 24 year old power lefty because they've resigned a 40 year old in severe decline?



If it gets you Santana?? Is that a serious question?
Room Starts Spinning
I would think there is some sort of way out if Wakefield's
shoulder turns out to be shot.
Gagne's gone,isn't he?
tom from out of town
QUOTE(Room Starts Spinning @ Nov 6 2007, 10:23 AM) *

Gagne's gone,isn't he?

He's a free agent. Somehow I don't think the Sox are burning up the phone lines to his agent.
BoDubya
i know this might be a silly question, but i don't know the answer. is papplebon sworn to closing for the rest of his career?
MrCheese
QUOTE(Evil Eddie C @ Nov 6 2007, 09:40 AM) *

Beckett
Matsuzaka
Wakefield
Lester
Bucholz
Tavares


Starters:
Beckett
Lester
Matsuzaka
Schilling
Wakefield

Bullpen, spot starters:
Bucholz
Tavares

No need for Snyder or Gagne.
MrCheese
QUOTE(Rusty Jones @ Nov 6 2007, 10:19 AM) *

If it gets you Santana?? Is that a serious question?


What's to say Lester won't as good as Santana a year from now? And for a lot less money...


DON'T TRADE LESTER FOR ANYBODY.
khan
shondra schilling
lusting_kay
QUOTE(tom from out of town @ Nov 6 2007, 10:27 AM) *

He's a free agent. Somehow I don't think the Sox are burning up the phone lines to his agent.


it is crazy how much money that trade cost him. He should have stuck to his no trade clause.
tom from out of town
QUOTE(MrCheese @ Nov 6 2007, 10:39 AM) *

Bullpen, spot starters:
Bucholz
Tavares

No need for Snyder or Gagne.

Agree on Gagne, but Snyder is a cheap middle/long relief guy. Bucholz is too valuable for that role. I think he would be better served by being in the regular rotation in Pawtucket than wasting away in the bullpen.
Danny Vermin
QUOTE(lusting_kay @ Nov 6 2007, 10:46 AM) *

it is crazy how much money that trade cost him. He should have stuck to his no trade clause.

He got a Ring, and got to pitch int he World Series. Most MLB players would trade a years salary for that.
anatomicallyincorrect
QUOTE(tom from out of town @ Nov 6 2007, 10:27 AM) *

He's a free agent. Somehow I don't think the Sox are burning up the phone lines to his agent.


Supposedly his agent is trying to get the Tigers interested in him. Joel Zumaya just had shoulder surgery after injuring himself trying to move things out of his house during the CA wildfires.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(MrCheese @ Nov 6 2007, 10:42 AM) *

What's to say Lester won't as good as Santana a year from now? And for a lot less money...
DON'T TRADE LESTER FOR ANYBODY.



And what's to say he doesn't morph into Kevin Morton??

Santana right now is the best left handed pitcher in baseball. Lester has yet to pitch a full season. Yes, he very well may turn out to be a very good pitcher. But what if he never really gets his control issues settled?

There are no questions as to what Santana already is.
anatomicallyincorrect
QUOTE(MrCheese @ Nov 6 2007, 10:42 AM) *


What's to say Lester won't as good as Santana a year from now? And for a lot less money...


DON'T TRADE LESTER FOR ANYBODY.


And who is to say whether he has a reoccurrence of cancer, or gets injured, or never progresses to be a staff ace?

Santana IS the best LHP in baseball.
The man from belmonty
QUOTE(MrCheese @ Nov 6 2007, 11:42 AM) *

What's to say Lester won't as good as Santana a year from now? And for a lot less money...
DON'T TRADE LESTER FOR ANYBODY.


Santana is already santana. Lester is not guranteed to be anything more than a guy who struggles to get thru 5 innings. He may be brilliant, he may be shite. Same goes for Bucholz. He may turn out great, but he may be shit. You know what you get with Santana.

The opportuinity of getting a young top of the rotation pitcher doesn't come around that often. I love the idea of a Crisp/Lester/Bucholz trade for Santana.
sue
QUOTE(anatomicallyincorrect @ Nov 6 2007, 10:49 AM) *

Supposedly his agent is trying to get the Tigers interested in him. Joel Zumaya just had shoulder surgery after injuring himself trying to move things out of his house during the CA wildfires.


I have a hunch that this will be a repeat of the Renteria situation, and he will thrive somewhere else.
Jones
Being able to trade for guys like Santana (or Josh Beckett - and look how that's worked out) is why you develop prospects like Lester and Buchholz.
Righteous Indignation Alert
QUOTE(Rusty Jones @ Nov 6 2007, 11:19 AM) *

If it gets you Santana?? Is that a serious question?



Oh, I didn't realize that the Twins would trade the best pitcher in baseball for projected #3. My bad.
Horror Business
I just read on ESPN.com that it is a done deal. 1 year, $8 mil, plus incentives. Good move for the Sox, I say.
Mark VI
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 10:16 AM) *

So, you think the Red Sox are going to now trade away their 24 year old power lefty because they've resigned a 40 year old in severe decline?

i think nobody is above being traded. at this point will they trade him? i don't think so. would it shock me if they did? no.

like i said. they would of traded lester last year, if he didn't get sick.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 12:28 PM) *

Oh, I didn't realize that the Twins would trade the best pitcher in baseball for projected #3. My bad.



Sigh...

Please try and keep up.

Buchholz
Lester
Crisp

For Santana.

Yes, your bad.
Righteous Indignation Alert
QUOTE(Rusty Jones @ Nov 6 2007, 01:40 PM) *

Sigh...

Please try and keep up.

Buchholz
Lester
Crisp

For Santana.

Yes, your bad.


Sigh. Do you just read other boards/listen to EEI and then claim ideas as your own?

Yes, you're stupid.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 12:45 PM) *

Sigh. Do you just read other boards/listen to EEI and then claim ideas as your own?

Yes, you're stupid.


Wow. That really hurt. Apparently, that's the best you've got.

Next.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 12:45 PM) *

Sigh. Do you just read other boards/listen to EEI and then claim ideas as your own?

Yes, you're stupid.



Oh, and as for stupid....well, I at least am literate enough to have read through this thread before making an ass-clown statement like the one above.

Try this tough guy

And do you have an original thought yourself or do you need to mimic others' posts in order to make your own?
Danny Vermin
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 12:45 PM) *

Sigh. Do you just read other boards/listen to EEI and then claim ideas as your own?

Yes, you're stupid.

Actually I posted it here first. So much for you paying attention.

Lester and Clay are the Sox most valuable/sought after prospects. Coco is undoubtedly going to be dealt to promote Ellsbury.

Santana will be a free agent after next year, and Minnesota doesn't want to lose him for nothing in return. The rest of their team is in shambles and they are rebuilding. He has a complete no-trade clause in his contract, but wants to win and no longer wants to waste time in Minne.
Danny Vermin
Torri Hunter is also up for grabs, which is Minnesota's only other key player to move.
Headtap
Having 6 starters on the staff is hardly a problem. You've got 2 guys over 40 years old. Lester and Bucholz aren't ready to pitch 200 innings. This staff is gonna need 6 starters.
Headtap
QUOTE(Rusty Jones @ Nov 6 2007, 12:40 PM) *

Sigh...

Please try and keep up.

Buchholz
Lester
Crisp

For Santana.

Yes, your bad.

Actually, no way you make this move.
Righteous Indignation Alert
QUOTE(Danny Vermin @ Nov 6 2007, 01:55 PM) *

Actually I posted it here first. So much for you paying attention.

Lester and Clay are the Sox most valuable/sought after prospects. Coco is undoubtedly going to be dealt to promote Ellsbury.

Santana will be a free agent after next year, and Minnesota doesn't want to lose him for nothing in return. The rest of their team is in shambles and they are rebuilding. He has a complete no-trade clause in his contract, but wants to win and no longer wants to waste time in Minne.



This idiot argument had nothing to do with your original post, Danny. It had to do with Mark VI's assertion that because the Sox signed Schilling, it was time to trade Lester.

The Sox may trade Lester, but it will little to nothing to do with the signing of Schilling.

Rusty Jones licks.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Headtap @ Nov 6 2007, 01:00 PM) *

Actually, no way you make this move.


Really? What makes you say that?

I do this in a heartbeat. Beckett (28), Santana (29), Dice-K (27) are a pretty devastating top three that could be around a long time.
Mark VI
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 01:03 PM) *

It had to do with Mark VI's assertion that because the Sox signed Schilling, it was time to trade Lester.

The Sox may trade Lester, but it will little to nothing to do with the signing of Schilling.



this is what i said. at no point did i say 'lester would be moved because of schilling'.

QUOTE(Mark VI @ Nov 6 2007, 10:07 AM) *

the would have traded lester a year ago if it wasn't for that cancer thing. that would be a p.r. disaster. bucholz isn't going anywhere.



QUOTE(Mark VI @ Nov 6 2007, 12:37 PM) *

i think nobody is above being traded. at this point will they trade him? i don't think so. would it shock me if they did? no.

like i said. they would of traded lester last year, if he didn't get sick.
Headtap
QUOTE(Rusty Jones @ Nov 6 2007, 01:05 PM) *

Really? What makes you say that?

I do this in a heartbeat. Beckett (28), Santana (29), Dice-K (27) are a pretty devastating top three that could be around a long time.

Sox just won the World Series and are bringing back the same crew, except you're upgrading Tavarez with Bucholz. They have the pitching to win it. I wouldn't give up the control you have over Bucholz for a one year guy. If your trade proposal guaranteed they sign Santana to an extension then I agree. I would do it in a heart beat.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Mark VI @ Nov 6 2007, 01:08 PM) *

this is what i said. at no point did i say 'lester would be moved because of shilling'.



ouch, RIA. Hard to believe, but you are actually losing at the internet.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Headtap @ Nov 6 2007, 01:09 PM) *

Sox just won the World Series and are bringing back the same crew, except you're upgrading Tavarez with Bucholz. They have the pitching to win it. I wouldn't give up the control you have over Bucholz for a one year guy. If your trade proposal guaranteed they sign Santana to an extension then I agree. I would do it in a heart beat.



I was assuming an extension and would think that would have to be a condition of making the trade in the first place. Otherwise, I agree. No way for a one year rental.
Righteous Indignation Alert
QUOTE(Rusty Jones @ Nov 6 2007, 02:10 PM) *

ouch, RIA. Hard to believe, but you are actually losing at the internet.


Just don't run up the score on me, okay bro?
MrCheese
Lester is bigger and he throws harder. There's no reason why he can't get his control better. And he's 23. He'll only get bigger and better. And he's making peanuts next to Santana, who is now at 13 mil, probably 21 mil/year after that, if after one year he stays with the Sox. And Bucholz is good, too.

Crisp/Lester/Bucholz for Santana is bad, bad, bad.
Danny Vermin
QUOTE(Headtap @ Nov 6 2007, 01:09 PM) *

Sox just won the World Series and are bringing back the same crew, except you're upgrading Tavarez with Bucholz. They have the pitching to win it. I wouldn't give up the control you have over Bucholz for a one year guy. If your trade proposal guaranteed they sign Santana to an extension then I agree. I would do it in a heart beat.

The sox would never trade all that for one year. If they didn't get a 5 year agreement out of him, they won't even bother. Nor will any other team.
Rusty Jones
QUOTE(Righteous Indignation Alert @ Nov 6 2007, 01:15 PM) *

Just don't run up the score on me, okay bro?


No worries there. You're doing a fine job all by yourself.
Headtap
QUOTE(Danny Vermin @ Nov 6 2007, 01:28 PM) *

The sox would never trade all that for one year. If they didn't get a 5 year agreement out of him, they won't even bother. Nor will any other team.

I believe that is what I just said.
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