Why didn't Obama and the Dems push through a, simple Health Care reform bill in his first 3 months Options

[Jeff Bruisers]

What part of the insurance industries efforts to limit access to courts for redress of grievances - overturning a concept fought for by the Founders based on the history of limiting such access to elites and aristocrats - do you fail to understand?

yawn

[screeg neegis]

yawn

Take a nap. Thinking is hard work.

[Arz]

The votes were there early on. Obama's biggest mistake was letting Congress fight it out instead of setting up some benchmarks. He dithered and lost.

This

[Jeff Bruisers]

Take a nap. Thinking is hard work.

So is seeing both sides of an issue.

Take a nap. The sound of one hand clapping is better than Ambien and Scotch.

[screeg neegis]

So is seeing both sides of an issue.

Take a nap. The sound of one hand clapping is better than Ambien and Scotch.

I don't think you've seen half of one side of this issue.

[mhaverty]

The votes were not there early on.
There was no bill to vote upon and the Democats faced a Republican membership determined to deny them any success.

The idea that this could have been whipped out and passed quckly is ridiculous and based on ignorance of how things work in Congress.

Obama went for too much. He had a mandate. He let it slip. End of story.

[screeg neegis]

Obama went for too much. He had a mandate. He let it slip. End of story.

Even if Obama had presented a fully-written bill during his first month in office, the result would have been the same - the Republicans had enough votes to filibuster it to death and the insurance industry had enough Democrats in their pockets to keep it from passing.

The "mandate" myth can't cut through that either - the 2008 election was not a landslide for Obama and he did not win the power to assume a dictatorship.

[benhamean]

Fuckin' Teddy Kennedy

[Charlemagne]

Even if Obama had presented a fully-written bill during his first month in office, the result would have been the same - the Republicans had enough votes to filibuster it to death and the insurance industry had enough Democrats in their pockets to keep it from passing.

The "mandate" myth can't cut through that either - the 2008 election was not a landslide for Obama and he did not win the power to assume a dictatorship.

Did the Dems have a majority in fillabuster majority at this point last year? I can't quite remember. I know that Franken took awhile to be seated because of the lawsuit regarding the counting.

[mhaverty]

Fuckin' Teddy Kennedy

Mitt Romney too.

If Teddy hadn't pulled the assfuckery when Kerry was running for president none of this would be a conversation right now.
:







[gasp] [gasp]



[gasp][gasp]












[gasp] [gasp]



[gasp][gasp]

[Satan]

Mitt Romney too.

If Teddy hadn't pulled the assfuckery when Kerry was running for president none of this would be a conversation right now.
:
[gasp] [gasp]



[gasp][gasp]

[gasp] [gasp]



[gasp][gasp]

I'm out of breath myself. Dems always shooting themselves in the foot.

[lusting_kay]

Tort reform -i.e. caps on damages - is a red herring. Malpractice torts represent a few percentage points of total healthcare costs, and it has NOT reduced costs or insurance premiums anywhere it's been imposed.
I will tell you this because it is true.

and with out Federal assistance, MA couldn't afford its health care plan.

[lusting_kay]

Obama went for too much. He had a mandate. He let it slip. End of story.

they all have mandates until they try to implement the policies they think that mandate supports and the people in the middle who gave them the mandate quickly rescind it.

[Jeff Bruisers]

I don't think you've seen half of one side of this issue.

Smell the mic.


This post has been edited by Jeff Bruisers: Feb 4 2010, 01:37 PM

[benhamean]

Mitt Romney too.

If Teddy hadn't pulled the assfuckery when Kerry was running for president none of this would be a conversation right now.
:
[gasp] [gasp]



[gasp][gasp]

[gasp] [gasp]



[gasp][gasp]

Yeah, then the dipshit went and died on top of it.
In hindsight, there were 2 instances where a strong player in this debate, either of which very well might have made the whole process vastly different, dropped out:

Kennedy, and Tom Daschle ('cause of his limosine thingy). How ironic that they both didn't make the debate. Anybody check for pulonium?

[mhaverty]

they all have mandates until they try to implement the policies they think that mandate supports and the people in the middle who gave them the mandate quickly rescind it.

True enough but Obama had the votes to get more things done even after the initial wave of spending bills. He calculated wrong. And of course nobody could have ever seen Mass. play out the way it did.

[screeg neegis]

Did the Dems have a filibuster-proof majority at this point last year? I can't quite remember. I know that Franken took awhile to be seated because of the lawsuit regarding the counting.

No - that's why the Republicans mounted a series of filibusters during that seven-month period and blocked a lot of bills and a lot of Obama's appointments, and they are now - as of 5pm today - set to do a lot more of it.

[Jeff Bruisers]

No - that's why the Republicans mounted a series of filibusters during that seven-month period and blocked a lot of bills and a lot of Obama's appointments, and they are now - as of 5pm today - set to do a lot more of it.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. When I read that the Republicans invented the filibuster after Obama was voted in I was furious.

[mhaverty]

No - that's why the Republicans mounted a series of filibusters during that seven-month period and blocked a lot of bills and a lot of Obama's appointments, and they are now - as of 5pm today - set to do a lot more of it.

None of Bush's appointments were ever blocked. Ever. Wah.

This post has been edited by mhaverty: Feb 4 2010, 03:09 PM

[Johnny Angel]

Funny how when you change a few words it all still makes sense.

And don't tell me what a small percentage of healthcare costs are caused by malpractice insurance. It's the very idea that it wasn't even on the table.

To his credit Obama later said he would consider it, but at that point it was moot.

Oh yeah, and don't think I'm defending the Republicans.

They too can lick Carl's mic.

Tort reform?

The health care industry is a one and one half trillion dollar business per annum. "Torts" (lawsuits, litigation) come to a little less than 30 billion dollars a year costs.

In other words, one half of one percent. Line up a hundred pennies and cut the last one in half and chuck half of the halved penny away and tell me how much it cost you.

This is a specious, absurdist argument put forth by the same people that scream about how litigious American society has become, but who never fail to utilize said system when they feel like suing (to wit, Rick Santorum and wife suing a chiropractor after Ricky spent years attacking "friviolous lawsuits").

As Screeg pointed out, this is a well-organized and very powerful, wealthy lobby that stands to lose everything is "Medicare for all" or a public option sees the light of day and will fight to the death to prevent such things.

[mhaverty]

Like most liberal statistics involved that little story Johnny told you, it doesn't tell you about all the costs of procedures needlessly done because doctors do not want to get sued. CYA is the name of the game and that costs a shit ton of money.

[Jeff Bruisers]

Tort reform?

The health care industry is a one and one half trillion dollar business per annum. "Torts" (lawsuits, litigation) come to a little less than 30 billion dollars a year costs.

In other words, one half of one percent. Line up a hundred pennies and cut the last one in half and chuck half of the halved penny away and tell me how much it cost you.

This is a specious, absurdist argument put forth by the same people that scream about how litigious American society has become, but who never fail to utilize said system when they feel like suing (to wit, Rick Santorum and wife suing a chiropractor after Ricky spent years attacking "friviolous lawsuits").

As Screeg pointed out, this is a well-organized and very powerful, wealthy lobby that stands to lose everything is "Medicare for all" or a public option sees the light of day and will fight to the death to prevent such things.

And don't tell me what a small percentage of healthcare costs are caused by malpractice insurance. It's the very idea that it wasn't even on the table.

Read: "It's ok if we're bought and paid for, but not if YOU are." Johnny, you're not an imbicile, you must see the point here. I specifically stipulated that it's not a large portion of healthcare costs. That wasn't my point and I'm pretty sure you know that.

[mhaverty]

And don't tell me what a small percentage of healthcare costs are caused by malpractice insurance. It's the very idea that it wasn't even on the table.

Read: "It's ok if we're bought and paid for, but not if YOU are." Johnny, you're not an imbicile, you must see the point here. I specifically stipulated that it's not a large portion of healthcare costs. That wasn't my point and I'm pretty sure you know that.

No... he just needs to do a search over at the Huffington Post and be done with it. Probably dug that "fact" up in show prep or from one of his in the can guests.

[Johnny Angel]

And don't tell me what a small percentage of healthcare costs are caused by malpractice insurance. It's the very idea that it wasn't even on the table.

Read: "It's ok if we're bought and paid for, but not if YOU are." Johnny, you're not an imbicile, you must see the point here. I specifically stipulated that it's not a large portion of healthcare costs. That wasn't my point and I'm pretty sure you know that.

A 2004 report by the Congressional Budget Office said medical malpractice makes up only 2 percent of U.S. health spending. Even “significant reductions” would do little to curb health-care expenses, it concluded.

If it's 2%, why would it be on the table, Jeff?

That's all of malpractice. And the "defensive medicine" that supposedly also drives up costs via unneeded tests is at most 60B a year in a business whose entire worth is 2.3 Trillion dollars. (Harvard med study).

The profit margin on this industry is, however, at around 350 billion dollars a year. Eliminate that and costs automatically go down 15%.

[Shakyfoot]

Like most liberal statistics involved that little story Johnny told you, it doesn't tell you about all the costs of procedures needlessly done because doctors do not want to get sued. CYA is the name of the game and that costs a shit ton of money.

Oh so now you're a fucking doctor? Which procedures would those be? With every doctor I've ever met (and I've met a lot) the name of the game is trying to improve people's health or save people's lives, you tool. In my experience doctors only concern about malpractice suits is how much the insurance companies are ass raping them, just like they're doing to the patients. Legally speaking it is very difficult to sucessfully sue for malpractice.
You're advocating insurance company accountants deciding which procedures get approved and which don't. Well that's kind of how it is now, except when the doctor prescibes a procedure or test and the insurance company doesn't feel like picking up the tab, guess who pays?