Obama lies on 60 mintues Options

[mhaverty]

He takes quotes from Cheney and Bush ("we will be greeted as liberators") and says "those were all John McCain's words".

100% lie.

[LocalWiseMan]

Fucking liberal media.

[mhaverty]

Fucking liberal media.

Nope. Just a typical politician using association politics and lies.

[Maximum Tor]

This was just on. After hearing this did you put on your cape to leap to the computer to defend McCain?

[Flipper]

While it is a pollitically motivated prevarication to offer "We will be greeted as liberators" as a direct McCain quote, I don't think it's %100 disingenuous, because most everyone who was beating the invasion drum were trumpeting similar ideas at the time.

In other words, McCain signed off on this shit, and while he came to take umbrage with the strategy, he never (at the outset) floated the idea that it might be a misguided venture to begin with.

[mhaverty]

This was just on. After hearing this did you put on your cape to leap to the computer to defend McCain?

This isn't a defense of McCain as much it letting the selective moral outrage types here know their boy is a straight up liar and just another typical politican trying to win an election.

[mhaverty]

While it is a pollitically motivated prevarication to offer "We will be greeted as liberators" as a direct McCain quote, I don't think it's %100 disingenuous, because most everyone who was beating the invasion drum were trumpeting similar ideas at the time.

In other words, McCain signed off on this shit, and while he came to take umbrage with the strategy, he never (at the outset) floated the idea that it might be a misguided venture to begin with.

It is a reasonable for one to say the war at it's inception was a mistake and Obama from day one has been steadfast in that position. However Obama has also correctly stated repeatedly that because a mistake was made we can't make another bad mistake and not bring the matter to the best resolution possible. This is where if he is honest to those sentiments.... it is he and Joe Biden who were on the wrong side of that question with their lack of support for the surge and saying it wouldn't work.

McCain was one of the first prominent Republicans to break ranks with the Bush Admin and called for the sacking of Rumsfeld and a new strategy. Obama obviously has to obfuscate those facts in order to win this election. I must admit he has done a pretty good job of it but I am steadfast in my belief that his triangulation on the matter will be exposed in the debates.

This post has been edited by mhaverty: Sep 21 2008, 07:42 PM

[Flipper]

It is a reasonable for one to say the war at it's inception was a mistake and Obama from day one has been steadfast in that position. However Obama has also correctly stated repeatedly that because a mistake was made we can't make another bad mistake and not bring the matter to the best resolution possible. This is where if he is honest to those sentiments.... it is he and Joe Biden who were on the wrong side of that question with their lack of support for the surge and saying it wouldn't work.

McCain was one of the first prominent Republicans to break ranks with the Bush Admin and called for the sacking of Rumsfeld and a new strategy. Obama obviously has to obfuscate those facts in order to win this election. I must admit he has done a pretty good job of it but I am steadfast in my belief that his triangulation on the matter will be exposed in the debates.

See, (to me) an election like this is more a referendum on who made the bad decision to begin with, and not so much who offers the best late-game solutions for the initial (tragic) mistake.

I'm not entirely thrilled with Obama, either.

But if we're going to have an honest debate about our invasion of Iraq, those who were against it from the git-go win all day/every day.

[Truth be known]

He takes quotes from Cheney and Bush ("we will be greeted as liberators") and says "those were all John McCain's words".

100% lie.

Pwn3d.

On the March 12, 2003, edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews asked McCain: "Do you believe that the people of Iraq or at least a large number of them will treat us as liberators?" McCain answered: "Absolutely. Absolutely."

Immediately after the invasion, McCain again echoed Cheney's optimism:

On the March 24, 2003, edition of Hardball -- several days after the U.S.-led coalition had invaded Iraq -- McCain said: "There's no doubt in my mind that we will prevail and there's no doubt in my mind, once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."

[mhaverty]

See, (to me) an election like this is more a referendum on who made the bad decision to begin with, and not so much who offers the best late-game solutions for the initial (tragic) mistake.

I'm not entirely thrilled with Obama, either.

But if we're going to have an honest debate about our invasion of Iraq, those who were against it from the git-go win all day/every day.

It is a reasonable position to want to hold the cheif responsible. But many moderates and conservatives remember full well it was official policy of the United States and signed off on by WJ Clinton that the regime in Iraq was to be changed. Americans remeber that leading up to the war polls showed as high as 80% were in support of it. Rember Joe "Gives Obama Judgement/Experience Cred" Biden voted a big fat YEA. So did John Kerry. So did Hillary Clinton. Meanwhile Obama's positions on Iraq since he became a US Senator running a national election, while delivered in a much more presidential and steadfast manner, are approaching the Karma Sutra level of John Kerry.

[mfk]

Pwn3d.

On the March 12, 2003, edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews asked McCain: "Do you believe that the people of Iraq or at least a large number of them will treat us as liberators?" McCain answered: "Absolutely. Absolutely."

Immediately after the invasion, McCain again echoed Cheney's optimism:

On the March 24, 2003, edition of Hardball -- several days after the U.S.-led coalition had invaded Iraq -- McCain said: "There's no doubt in my mind that we will prevail and there's no doubt in my mind, once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."

mods, can we change the thread title to "Obama quotes McCain accurately on 60 Minutes"?

[benhamean]

Pwn3d.

On the March 12, 2003, edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews asked McCain: "Do you believe that the people of Iraq or at least a large number of them will treat us as liberators?" McCain answered: "Absolutely. Absolutely."

Immediately after the invasion, McCain again echoed Cheney's optimism:

On the March 24, 2003, edition of Hardball -- several days after the U.S.-led coalition had invaded Iraq -- McCain said: "There's no doubt in my mind that we will prevail and there's no doubt in my mind, once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."

What kind of elitist, sexist b.s. is that?

[terrydactyl]

This isn't a defense of McCain as much it letting the selective moral outrage types here know their boy is a straight up liar and just another typical politican trying to win an election.

but i saw it the same way, mh
the repub party made everyone fearful and angry to the point of attacking a wrong person and wrong country and then went through a litany of reasons why we werent going after the perpetrators but just had to attack iraq instead

[mhaverty]

Pwn3d.

On the March 12, 2003, edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews asked McCain: "Do you believe that the people of Iraq or at least a large number of them will treat us as liberators?" McCain answered: "Absolutely. Absolutely."

Immediately after the invasion, McCain again echoed Cheney's optimism:

On the March 24, 2003, edition of Hardball -- several days after the U.S.-led coalition had invaded Iraq -- McCain said: "There's no doubt in my mind that we will prevail and there's no doubt in my mind, once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."

My bad. I was wrong. I was 100% certain it was Cheney who owned the liberators comment. I don't remember or never saw it backed up by McCain with such affirmation.

I am going to look at the transcript though from last night be cause there was another quote I can only remeber Bush/Cheney saying that they attributed to McCain. He might have affirmed that also. I wouldn't be surprised.

[mhaverty]

mods, can we change the thread title to "Obama quotes McCain accurately on 60 Minutes"?

I'm ok with that as long as they take the time to fact check every single thread on the board.

[guest of a friend]

I'm ok with that as long as they take the time to fact check every single thread on the board.

We'll just start with yours. They take the most time anyway.

Hey MHav, this is how easy it is to fact check:

http://www.google.ie/search?q=McCain+greet...lient=firefox-a

And btw. McCain stuck by that and claimed we WERE greeted as liberators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY2EP6fj1Js

This post has been edited by guest of a friend: Sep 22 2008, 08:21 AM

[Arz]

I'm ok with that as long as they take the time to fact check every single thread on the board.

Even the ones in the music forum?

[guest of a friend]

mods, can we change the thread title to "Obama quotes McCain accurately on 60 Minutes"?

How about "A Brief History of a Right Wing Talking Point"

[mhaverty]

We'll just start with yours. They take the most time anyway.

Hey MHav, this is how easy it is to fact check:

http://www.google.ie/search?q=McCain+greet...lient=firefox-a

And btw. McCain stuck by that and claimed we WERE greeted as liberators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY2EP6fj1Js

I was sure. I admitted I was wrong.

Anyway... in some circles we were greeted as liberators but it wasn't exactly like when the US troops rode in to Paris that is for sure.

[mhaverty]

Even the ones in the music forum?

Is music immune to selective moral outrage?

[guest of a friend]

I was sure. I admitted I was wrong.

Anyway... in some circles we were greeted as liberators but it wasn't exactly like when the US troops rode in to Paris that is for sure.

At least this time you've admitted that what you were sure was was in fact wrong.

It's a start.

Though you then backtrack and say that while you were wrong technically you were kinda right, so excuse me if I don't get my hopes up.

[Arz]

Is music immune to selective moral outrage?

While a hit for the band, Night Ranger's patriotism was called into question for suggesting that there was a time when one could not rock in America.

[JohnnyBlack]

I was sure. I admitted I was wrong.

'bout time we all agreed on something.

[mhaverty]

At least this time you've admitted that what you were sure was was in fact wrong.

It's a start.

Though you then backtrack and say that while you were wrong technically you were kinda right, so excuse me if I don't get my hopes up.

I was wrong about McCain never affirming the liberators statements. Some Iraqi's did feel the Americans were liberators. These are two wholly separate things and both statements are 100% factual.

How about some honesty from you Goaf?

Yes or no answer please. Has Obama in some instances mis-represented McCains positions or statements during this election on the stump and in ads? Yes or no.

[mhaverty]

While a hit for the band, Night Ranger's patriotism was called into question for suggesting that there was a time when one could not rock in America.

Indeed but a couple quick spins of Sister Christian and all was forgiven.