Madball Options

[Vieira]

This is almost as bad as when Mackie was playing with The Fun Loving Criminals.

Why such a good drummer slums it so hard is beyond me. Madball really, really sucks.

He was in Hazen St, which was essentially Madball with Toby Morse, so it's not really a surprise.

And, come on, Septic Death? Not good.

[jonah]

And, come on, Septic Death? Not good.

Septic Death was one of the most original hc bands ever. For brutal and or fast HC, that album is as classic as all of the early Boston and DC stuff...certainly as influential, if not more so than the FU's.

[Mahoney]

Septic Death was one of the most original hc bands ever. For brutal and or fast HC, that album is as classic as all of the early Boston and DC stuff...certainly as influential, if not more so than the FU's.

still doesn't mean it is that good

[doyouwrong]

Septic Death was one of the most original hc bands ever. For brutal and or fast HC, that album is as classic as all of the early Boston and DC stuff...certainly as influential, if not more so than the FU's.

I don't know about that, the FU's actually had good songs. I was having a discussion with a friend recently about how regardless of genre, its really just good song writing or bad, stuff that a listener can connect with or not, weather its thrashy hardcore, pop, industrial or whatever. Poison Idea wrote good songs, Septic Death didn't. U2 writes good songs, coldplay doesn't, etc, etc, etc...

[jonah]

SD had great songs...so did Siege...they just didn't write anthems.




Quit
and
Terrorain

are definitely great songs which stand up anything on Kill For Christ.

this band was an influence on anyone that played "powerviolence" (PHC, INFEST, NEANDERTHAL, CEOSSED OUT, SPAZZ) never mind Repulsion, Siege, Napalm Death, Cryptic Slaughter, DRI, and then Rorshach, Deadguy, Citizen's Arrest, Born Against, Integrity and plenty of more recent bands...any grind/thrash bands.


I agree that being influential is not necessarily proof of quality...as plenty of bands that I dislike have influenced plenty of others that I also do not like...

and I really do not need to defend Septic Death, they have an entire legacy that speaks for itself. If you don't know about it, your loss.

My point is that making obvious, easily understood music is not a measure of quality either.

[niffrotite]

Septic Death is fucking awesome when the mood suits me, which isn't as often as the mood for Poison Idea suits me, but they were still awesome thrash. You can't really compare the 2 though. I can very much appreciate the rippingness of SD.

[jonah]

Septic Death is fucking awesome when the mood suits me, which isn't as often as the mood for Poison Idea suits me, but they were still awesome thrash. You can't really compare the 2 though. I can very much appreciate the rippingness of SD.

I agree about Poison Idea...a very different band.

But my initial comparison of SD to FUs stands, I think, because not only did they play together, but, initially, they both played at ridiculous speeds, and did it well, IMO.

[Vieira]

There's no questioning their influence or importance, and I'm well aware of their legacy. I just think, on their own, they don't really stand the test of time and their stuff isn't very "high quality." I'd say MANY of the bands you listed as having been influenced by them, are far superior.
They're certainly not a band I'd list as a benchmark of "great hardcore."

[jonah]

There's no questioning their influence or importance, and I'm well aware of their legacy. I just think, on their own, they don't really stand the test of time and their stuff isn't very "high quality." I'd say MANY of the bands you listed as having been influenced by them, are far superior.
They're certainly not a band I'd list as a benchmark of "great hardcore."

well, Germs, for instance were not "high quality" in the slightest, and they are obviously a very important band in the history of punk.

Septic Death did amazing things for hardcore, lyrically, through Pushead's art, and sonically...they are by far one of the most important bands of their era, especially considering the size of their "scene" in Idaho.

"Now That I Have Your Attention..." is one of the greatest hardcore albums of all time, in my opinion.

[Vieira]

well, Germs, for instance were not "high quality" in the slightest, and they are obviously a very important band in the history of punk.

Septic Death did amazing things for hardcore, lyrically, through Pushead's art, and sonically...they are by far one of the most important bands of their era, especially considering the size of their "scene" in Idaho.

"Now That I Have Your Attention..." is one of the greatest hardcore albums of all time, in my opinion.

I think the Germs are highly overrated. And while, they had a few killer songs, their "influence" comes more from Darby's schtick and disorders than the band's music themselves.

[jonah]

I think the Germs are highly overrated. And while, they had a few killer songs, their "influence" comes more from Darby's schtick and disorders than the band's music themselves.

IMO, also true about Suicide, Kilslug, GG Allin (post-prison time), and myriad other bands.

Seems like we're getting into "what does good mean" territory.

Taste doesn't necessarily require definition...I'm sure we respectfully disagree about Madball and many other bands.

[khan]

I think the Germs are highly overrated. And while, they had a few killer songs, their "influence" comes more from Darby's schtick and disorders than the band's music themselves.

Germs had a huge inluence on american hardcore. Not just the "schtick" either.

[jonah]

Germs had a huge inluence on american hardcore. Not just the "schtick" either.

Springa stole Darby's sense of humor

[Vieira]

Germs had a huge inluence on american hardcore. Not just the "schtick" either.

I really disagree. Musically, they were just a faster, meaner Dead Boys. They had no where near the impact or importance of Black Flag or the Bad Brains.

[AckAckAckAck]

I really disagree. Musically, they were just a faster, meaner Dead Boys. They had no where near the impact or importance of Black Flag or the Bad Brains.

kinda off on this one.

[khan]

I really disagree. Musically, they were just a faster, meaner Dead Boys. They had no where near the impact or importance of Black Flag or the Bad Brains.

but you are wrong

[Mahoney]

i like seige way better than septic death and the germs can go take a flying leap of suck mountain any day now.

[jonah]

I really disagree. Musically, they were just a faster, meaner Dead Boys. They had no where near the impact or importance of Black Flag or the Bad Brains.

yeah, no.

[khan]

i like seige way better than septic death

ditto

[Vieira]

but you are wrong

Sorry, I just don't see it, esp in the music dept. Attitude, sure.

You guys really think they're as "influential" as Bad Brains or Black Flag???

[khan]

Sorry, I just don't see it, esp in the music dept. Attitude, sure.

You guys really think they're as "influential" as Bad Brains or Black Flag???

gee...what crowd did Greg Ginn come from?

move along K2.5, you have a terrible argument.

[Vieira]

gee...what crowd did Greg Ginn come from?

move along K2.5, you have a terrible argument.

Ginn was a dead head/surfer type dude from Hermosa Beach. While I'm sure the Germs were an "influence" in him starting the band, and because they were big out here at that time, but he certainly didn't seem to be emulating them, nor has anything I ever read about/from him indicated that.

And by the way, I'm not making an "argument." I'm voicing my opinion. Arguing would be saying you and Jonah are wrong, which I'm not. I'm saying I don't see them as important as the other 2 bands I mentioned.

[Vieira]

And also, it was the Germs attitude and aggression that the beach scene kids got into, as opposed to the other more artsy/docile LA bands of the time.

[Vieira]

And also, it was the Germs attitude and aggression that the beach scene kids got into, as opposed to the other more artsy/docile LA bands of the time.

[khan]

Ginn was a dead head/surfer type dude from Hermosa Beach. While I'm sure the Germs were an "influence" in him starting the band, and because they were big out here at that time, but he certainly didn't seem to be emulating them, nor has anything I ever read about/from him indicated that.

sorry man. didnt know you were from the old LA scene. i thought you were some clown in a 30's dude.










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This post has been edited by khan: Apr 15 2008, 07:46 PM