the Roxy capacity issues, something's fishy here Options

[coughlin]

article below from yesterday's herald
my questions are:
1) how can the city get away with reducing the capacity by FIVE HUNDRED PLUS when it granted them the original capacity in the first place? (aside from "i'm mumbles, i can do what i want," please)
2) what about all the other places down there that routinely have more trouble?
3) what is the logic that says reducing numbers will magically keep assholes out?
4) does this sound suspiciously anti-live music in general?

there'll be more...
this seems almost expressly calculated to put them out of business.
i almost never go there, but this pisses me off.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional...ticleid=1034131
Capacity crunch could force Roxy cancellations

The Roxy’s capacity is on the rocks, which means some of the big-name acts booked to play there this fall may have to cancel.

The Herald reported yesterday that the Roxy’s usual 1,300-person capacity made it the logical venue for concerts that normally would have gone to Avalon and Axis, the two Lansdowne Street clubs soon to be closed for renovation.

But Mayor Thomas M. Menino’s office said yesterday the Theater District hotspot is currently allowed less than 800 people. In May, the city put the Roxy on probation and lowered its capacity by more than 500 for all public events.

“They’re not allowed to have any more than 775 people in the club,” said Dot Joyce, the mayor’s spokeswoman.

Joyce said the crowd limit will be reviewed when the probation ends in November, but it’s not likely to be increased.

“It’s not in the foreseeable future that the capacity will change,” Joyce said, citing 13 pages of incidents at the club in the past year, including assault and battery charges within the club and unruly crowds along Tremont Street after 2 a.m.

At 775 patrons, the Roxy is only slightly larger than the Paradise Rock Club and considerably smaller than Axis, which held roughly 1,000, or the 2,100-person capacity Avalon.

Steven Frumin, the Roxy’s director of events, said the club was optimistic it would get its licensed capacity back up to 1,300 by November. If not, the restrictions “will definitely affect” future shows and possibly force cancellations.

The club is shifting its focus to live music and will eventually phase out its DJ-run dance parties. “We’ve never been written up for a rock show,” Frumin said.

Shows currently scheduled to play the Roxy this fall include Of Montreal, Spoon and Bad Religion.

[RockZilla]

The club is shifting its focus to live music and will eventually phase out its DJ-run dance parties. “We’ve never been written up for a rock show,” Frumin said.

I always knew those club kids and their dance parties were no good.

[benhamean]

It is fishy as fuck.
We just played there this weekend. When the show was booked the stated capacity was 1,600, which was then reduced to 1,000 (or 900, depending on who you talk to).
Supposedly, they actually admitted 1200-1300 to the show, but turned another couple hundred away...

The rumor I heard is that the BPD has a big hard-on for the Roxy, and is actively involved in getting capacity reductions enacted. The reason being to put them out of business.

Not sure what the reason for the 'hard on' is, though- probably a beef with the owner, I'm guessing...

[mhaverty]

It is fishy as fuck.
We just played there this weekend. When the show was booked the stated capacity was 1,600, which was then reduced to 1,000 (or 900, depending on who you talk to).
Supposedly, they actually admitted 1200-1300 to the show, but turned another couple hundred away...

The rumor I heard is that the BPD has a big hard-on for the Roxy, and is actively involved in getting capacity reductions enacted. The reason being to put them out of business.

Not sure what the reason for the 'hard on' is, though- probably a beef with the owner, I'm guessing...

Follow the money. Who stands to lose the most if the Roxy becomes the venu of choice for mid level national acts????

Funny things happen over around the Fenway Area when the Lyons group makes a move. Ask anybody that had patio service.... ask the Cask and Flagon about their permiting issues when they expanded.... ask anybody that put a bid in for the Bleacher bar under Center Field.

[the other dave]

This is just another example of normally well-behaved live music crowds (along with the bands, booking agents, promoters, etc) being punished for unruly hip hop crowds.

[coughlin]

Follow the money. Who stands to lose the most if the Roxy becomes the venu of choice for mid level national acts????

Funny things happen over around the Fenway Area when the Lyons group makes a move. Ask anybody that had patio service.... ask the Cask and Flagon about their permiting issues when they expanded.... ask anybody that put a bid in for the Bleacher bar under Center Field.

well, the venue-of-choice thing is really only during the lyons' construction phase, after that i don't think the roxy can hurt them w/the reduced capacity.
if you're suggesting that the lyons' have that much clout w/the city (which would go far beyond just cops, obviously, and of course you may be right on the money), some disgrunteld employee or whoever should go to the papers with it.

what's the deal w/the bleacher bar?

[jf5]

Not sure if this pertains to the Roxy, but didn't they reduce capacity on all venues after the station fire??

[drumdad]

Follow the money. Who stands to lose the most if the Roxy becomes the venu of choice for mid level national acts????

Funny things happen over around the Fenway Area when the Lyons group makes a move. Ask anybody that had patio service.... ask the Cask and Flagon about their permiting issues when they expanded.... ask anybody that put a bid in for the Bleacher bar under Center Field.

Who do you think spreads more $$$ around - the owner of the Roxy, or Lyons?

[benhamean]

Follow the money. Who stands to lose the most if the Roxy becomes the venu of choice for mid level national acts????

Funny things happen over around the Fenway Area when the Lyons group makes a move. Ask anybody that had patio service.... ask the Cask and Flagon about their permiting issues when they expanded.... ask anybody that put a bid in for the Bleacher bar under Center Field.

I think this has something to do with it.

[Col. H. D. Sanders]

It is fishy as fuck.
We just played there this weekend. When the show was booked the stated capacity was 1,600, which was then reduced to 1,000 (or 900, depending on who you talk to).
Supposedly, they actually admitted 1200-1300 to the show, but turned another couple hundred away...

The rumor I heard is that the BPD has a big hard-on for the Roxy, and is actively involved in getting capacity reductions enacted. The reason being to put them out of business.

Not sure what the reason for the 'hard on' is, though- probably a beef with the owner, I'm guessing...

I showed up at 8 and was told it was full and they couldn't let anyone in and to call the ticket agency to get my money back. 20 minutes later I walked in with no problem.

[coughlin]

I showed up at 8 and was told it was full and they couldn't let anyone in and to call the ticket agency to get my money back. 20 minutes later I walked in with no problem.

this is so fucked...
this was last weekend's show?
the capacity was reduced AFTER the # of tickets sold had already passed it?
i'm no lawyer (no shit), but you'd think the city would know that the club has a contract to honor tickets sold, a contract they can't enter without a number... i don't see how the city can override that --- future shows or that haven't sold the new # of tickets, ok, but that the fuck?
i really hope someone blows the whistle on this shit.

[Vieira]

First off, Axis is in no way 1000, unless you combine upstairs and down.
Second, I don't think it's "anti live music," because despite what the Roxy said, their bread and butter are still dance nights, which they've had tons of problems with. They have the opportunity to do more stuff there right now live musicwise, but all the clear channel stuff will go back to Lansdown when the new room opens.

Joe- The capacity was cut a while ago. Shows that were already booked and had made deals based on the original capacity, and had tickets on sale, were basically just fucked. It's not like you can say to the city "well, we already sold 1400 tickets for Bad Religion, so let us raise the capacity for the night."

[His Daddy]

Let's call it for what it is. White kids go to Landsdowne, black kids go to the Roxy / Tremont St. clubs.

[coughlin]

First off, Axis is in no way 1000, unless you combine upstairs and down.

Second, I don't think it's "anti live music," because despite what the Roxy said, their bread and butter are still dance nights, which they've had tons of problems with.

Joe- The capacity was cut a while ago. Shows that were already booked and had made deals based on the original capacity, and had tickets on sale, were basically just fucked. It's not like you can say to the city "well, we already sold 1400 tickets for Bad Religion, so let us raise the capacity for the night."

1) that's correct
2) they also said more recently they were phasing out dance nites & had never been written up for a rock show
3) i understand that's what happened, i just don't understand HOW... again, no lawyer here, but one would think they were contractually obligated to honor tickets, and i don't know how the city can TRULY legally get around that unless the club had an awful track record... you would think they'd hafta grandfather the new ruling in, no?

[His Daddy]

3) i understand that's what happened, i just don't understand HOW... again, no lawyer here, but one would think they were contractually obligated to honor tickets, and i don't know how the city can TRULY legally get around that unless the club had an awful track record... you would think they'd hafta grandfather the new ruling in, no?

I'd imagine that the city pretty much trumps any legal contracts when it comes to public safety. Imagine if the Station had a twin nightclub next door to the original Station. The day after the fire if a municipality said it was limiting shows for safety reasons I'd imagine there really wouldn't be anything the club could do about it.

Capacity is a fire code thing, which is public safety.

[Vieira]

The city/town/state/whomever doesn't give a fuck about any contractual obligations. It's not their problem.

[coughlin]

I'd imagine that the city pretty much trumps any legal contracts when it comes to public safety. Imagine if the Station had a twin nightclub next door to the original Station. The day after the fire if a municipality said it was limiting shows for safety reasons I'd imagine there really wouldn't be anything the club could do about it.

Capacity is a fire code thing, which is public safety.

indeed, but the city granted the larger capacity in the first place, that's why i don't think it's a safety thing.
we're talking hundreds of people here, not dozens.
i just think something else is going on here.
the station thing is kinda moot, since it's safe to assume they wouldnt'a sprung for the right foam on the walls there either.

[His Daddy]

i just think something else is going on here.

I agree. The politics in Boston is incredibly scuzzy. Let's face it, the cops can get caught testing positive for coke, and the first time they get a warning. A WARNING FOR DOING COKE!!!

[coughlin]

The city/town/state/whomever doesn't give a fuck about any contractual obligations. It's not their problem.

it's a simple enough question --- is that an absolute legal fact?
i intend to find out... like i said, grandfather clause at least, one would think.
someone's got someone over a barrel here, i'm guessing.

[coughlin]

I agree. The politics in Boston is incredibly scuzzy. Let's face it, the cops can get caught testing positive for coke, and the first time they get a warning. A WARNING FOR DOING COKE!!!

yowch, i didn't know that, sheezis!

[His Daddy]

yowch, i didn't know that, sheezis!

Still, I really hate to play the race card, but the Roxy is a black club. The city's saying there are rough crowds after the Roxy closes? Have they ever walked down Landsdowne St. at 2am. There is *always* a big fight there. Same for the Sox games. Should they limit the number of people that can attend a Sox game?

[coughlin]

Still, I really hate to play the race card, but the Roxy is a black club. The city's saying there are rough crowds after the Roxy closes? Have they ever walked down Landsdowne St. at 2am. There is *always* a big fight there. Same for the Sox games. Should they limit the number of people that can attend a Sox game?

i don't see how they can (legitimately) tie all post-closing trouble to the roxy, given the number of clubs down there

[TOPPER]

It is fishy as fuck.
We just played there this weekend. When the show was booked the stated capacity was 1,600, which was then reduced to 1,000 (or 900, depending on who you talk to).
Supposedly, they actually admitted 1200-1300 to the show, but turned another couple hundred away...

The rumor I heard is that the BPD has a big hard-on for the Roxy, and is actively involved in getting capacity reductions enacted. The reason being to put them out of business.

Not sure what the reason for the 'hard on' is, though- probably a beef with the owner, I'm guessing...

I've heard this , too. Also, a few months ago, I got to sneak into a show, supposedly sold out, by throwing out a big cop's name, the guy at the door kissed my ass and let me in, almost like he was afraid of anything police related.

[TOPPER]

yowch, i didn't know that, sheezis!

Also, the contract calls for them to be tested on their birthday! So, they know months in advance, and can plan accordingly.

[coughlin]

Also, the contract calls for them to be tested on their birthday! So, they know months in advance, and can plan accordingly.

and the first time, they don't even hafta plan.
you gotta wonder why "mr. public safety" mumbles wouldn't say something on this.

ok, so you don't gotta wonder.