Robbie Roberston's Last Waltz DVD audio commentry, I was watching it last night and... Options

[stoneylarsen]

Speaking of songs dedicated to/inspired by the Band ... a couple more are Steve Forbert's "Wild as the Wind" and the Drive By Truckers "Danko/Manual" ... Kind of helps to hear the music.

I'm glad you brought up these and not that dreadful Counting Crows tune...

[Dawson]

Great thread.

I just saw Festival Express this weekend, great stuff on there from The Band, Joplin, The Dead... you can definitely see lots of partying going on. Bob Weir talks about how they (The Dead) weren't used to all of the alcohol.

This was a great scene..

[JWS]

Of all Robbie's perceived crimes against his fellow bandmates, I hold him most accountable and responsible for killing the should-have-been classic Tom Petty song "The Best of Everything", with his cheesy co-production. Sure, Dave Stewart is partly responsible, but Robbie could have stepped in to save it at least. Or maybe not, I dunno. But Garth Hudson could have not played foil with his crummy synthed-up keyboard contribution, too. Richard Manuel's spot-on harmony vocals mesh brilliantly with Petty, though. Talk about pure, it's a beatiful sound, a gorgeus blend, and a really great song, just one mired in the most awful, shitty 80's-sounding production you've ever heard. And Richard would be dead within the year.

http://theband.hiof.no/sounds/TomPetty-The...fEverything.mp3

[stoneylarsen]

This was a great scene..

Oh man, Danko is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucked up but having a damn good time...talk about goofy...

I like that bit while in the midst of them doing "Ain't No More Cane On The Brazos" Janis Joplin turns to Rick and goes "how you doin' Daddy?" I saw that and I was like WHOA because I had no idea...

Throughout the Festival Express party scenes one thought kept crossing my mind: where are Richard and Levon? I had a feeling Garth and Robbie weren't into that party aspect, but still, did Richard make off with a couple of bottles and find himself a corner somewhere in the caboose?

[stoneylarsen]

I think Robertson is did ok. He had a great run of legendary songs on the first 3 albums Band albums: Big Pink, the self-titled "Brown Album, and Stagefright. Then he aditionally had some decent to really good tunes on albums such as Cahoots to Northern Lights;Southern Cross. That is a solid 6-7 year run. After that he moved on to other things and essentially became someone who periodically "dabbled" in songwriting. I think the bigger more mysterious case of losing one's "muse" due to sudden artistic burnout is really Richard Manuel.

We must not forget that the Bob Dylan/Hawks-Band "Basement Tapes" tracks that were distributed on acetate in 1967-68 as songwriting demos (songs like "Quinn The Eskimo/The Mighty Quinn", "This Wheel's On Fire", "I Shall Be Released", "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere", "Million Dollar Bash", "Please Mrs. Henry", and "Tears of Rage", etc.) plus Music From Big Pink itself, inspired and caused a hell of a lot of good music to be made, especially in the UK. Beggar's Banquet by The Rolling Stones, the original concept of The Beatles' scrapped Get Back LP, George Harrison's All Things Must Pass (of the title tune Harrison wrote in his book I Me Mine that he was "trying to write a Robbie Robertson-type song"), and perhaps even Town & Country by Humble Pie, plus many more, were all inspired by this.

I even read in the book Highway To Hell, which is about AC/DC's Bon Scott, that Fraternity, for whom Bon sang for 1970-73, "wanted to be The Band".

Way cool.

[Charlemagne]

Another band I thought of afterwards was The Who. I am still convinced that John Entwistle died for two reasons:

1) that he thought he could handle a night like he used to do all those years ago despite the heart medication that he'd been on for close to 10 years (I had heard) and the fact that he could not party on it.

2) ...and he couldn't bare the thought of doing yet another tour with Townshend.

Entwistle was a mere 57 when he died.

My second theory I know doesn't hold a lot of water, but again it goes back to what I had discussed previously about Richard Manuel and Ian Curtis. Do I think Entwistle killed himself? No, but I think he may have been in a "fuck it - whatever happens happens" mood that night.

(I couldn't find that famous last photo of him at the bar in olas Vegas looking a little forlorn taken the night he died but I did find this photo which illustrates something else that was discussed earlier in this thread - spot the sports bottle!):

<img src="http://www.popmatters.com/music/concerts/e/images/entwistle-john-030513.jpg">

and

<img src="http://content.clearchannel.com/Photos/musicians/who/entwistle.jpg">

Entwislte's girlfriend died just a couple of years after he did (drug overdose). It is no secret that John was the outsider during those post-1982 Who reunions. He felt The Who should have been touring during the 80's and was bitter that Pete closed down shop thus preventing him to earn the substantial income he had been used to. Pete and Roger felt John was a bitter person and also thought he played too loud on stage. I have heard rumors that the 1989 tour was done in part ot help a close to bankrupt Entwistle. However, I think the real reason is that during the late 80's reunions by Classic Rock bands were becoming big business and Pete wanted the big payday too (their subsequent tours after 1989 were not as crass and gaudy). Speaking of Townshend and Entwistle, Pete said some rather nasty things about John's bass playing and John as a person in an interview in Uncut (released after John's death). Pete issued an apology to John's mum Queenie (that was her name). Pete said some less than nice things about Keith too after he died. Ah, rock n' roll...

[stoneylarsen]

Speaking of Townshend and Entwistle, Pete said some rather nasty things about John's bass playing and John as a person in an interview in Uncut (released after John's death). Pete issued an apology to John's mum Queenie (that was her name). Pete said some less than nice things about Keith too after he died. Ah, rock n' roll...

I know we were talking about how much Robbie might be a prick, but Townshend has become a rather crabby old prune danish drama queen in recent years. He was bitching about Entwistle? The man who, after Moon died, was drinking four bottles of brandy on stage a night? I got a few words for Pete: The Iron Man, White City, and Deep End Live. How much more can he wring out of the tattered cloth that's left of Tommy? How much further can he run the carburator down on Quadrophenia? How much more tangled within his own post-Acid fasting visions of Baba knows what on Lifehouse can he get?

To quote Entwistle: "I never got what Lifehouse was all about, really."

Anyone see that interview Townshend gave to Rolling Stones a few years back where the interviewer brought up a Danny Fields quote that described Pete as one of his "boyfriends" in the late 60's and Pete just EXPLODED in a near-homophobic/denial rant that was so absurd to the point of practically being an outing. Mind you this was BEFORE the kiddie porn accusations that were eventually withdrawn.

What happened to Pete in the late 90's? He was being very open in the early 90's about his sexuality and the song "Rough Boys" being almost a "coming out" and then all of sudden he reversed this and went back into the closet. I mean, shit, Daltrey seemed to have no problem doing the Freddie Mercury tribute concert - neither did Tony Iommi - but where the fuck as Pete? I mean, c'mon, was everyone gonna think you're a queer if you were there? No one all of sudden was like Daltrey wears pink underpants and Iommi takes it up the rear. Hell, you guys covered Empress Elton's "The Bitch Is Back" for crissakes...I mean, what the fuck? Who cares, Pete? Well, it's long ago now...

Poor John. Daltrey refused to play on his songs until about 1969. His best bud in the band, Moon, died. I don't think that his solo albums, at least the early ones, got the attention they deserved (Muso - care to throw in here?) I don't care what anyone says - "My Wife" is the best song on Who's Next. Great words, great tune.

I could open this up to include George Harrison as well...I might just got there if you all encourage me to. I love the stories of the Get Back sessions where Lennon is falling out of his chair zonked on smack playing "Dig A Pony" and "Don't Let Me Down" over and over again and dismissing Harrison's tunes such as "Hear Me Lord", "All Things Must Pass", "Let It Down", "Beware Of Darkness", "Art Of Dying", and "Beautiful Girl" inbetween nodding off on Yoko's shoulder.

Beatles historian Belmo even claims that "Art Of Dying" was actually first brought by Harrison to the Beatles during the Revolver sessions in 1966 and Lennon laughed him out of the studio. I'm sure Doug Sulpy may have more on this (Muso?)

Ahhhhhhh...rock and roll bands...nothing more than 24 hour encounter group...

[stoneylarsen]

The Band, The Who, The Rolling Stones, The Grateful Dead, the Beatles...who else falls into this category that we've opened up? Fleetwood Mac? American Music Club?

[Muso]

\ko's shoulder.
Beatles historian Belmo even claims that "Art Of Dying" was actually first brought by Harrison to the Beatles during the Revolver sessions in 1966 and Lennon laughed him out of the studio. I'm sure Doug Sulpy may have more on this (Muso?)

First I've heard that story, but it sounds plausible. Still boggles the mind that the Beatles version of All Things Must Pass-- one of their best outtakes ever-- wasn't even on the Anthologies.

[stoneylarsen]

Anyone see that interview Townshend gave to Rolling Stone a few years back where the interviewer brought up a Danny Fields quote that described Pete as one of his "boyfriends" in the late 60's and Pete just EXPLODED in a near-homophobic/denial rant that was so absurd to the point of practically being an outing. Mind you this was BEFORE the kiddie porn accusations that were eventually withdrawn.

Found it here.

[Muso]

Found it here.

Hmm..He doesn't really deny anything here; in fact he pretty much fesses up to his sexuality (which seems about 90 oercent hetero). The only screaming fit happens when they ask him about commercials.

[Charlemagne]

First I've heard that story, but it sounds plausible. Still boggles the mind that the Beatles version of All Things Must Pass-- one of their best outtakes ever-- wasn't even on the Anthologies.

I have it on that "Get Back" session bootleg. It is indeed great and very strange that The Beatles didn't use it. Although, in some ways it is probably for the best because to some degree Paul overdid the backup vocals and George's session crew from the album of the same name (Klaus Voorman, Peter Drake, Jim Gordan, Carl Ralde, etc), do a beautiful job with it

[John D]

I know we were talking about how much Robbie might be a prick, but Townshend has become a rather crabby old prune danish drama queen in recent years. He was bitching about Entwistle? The man who, after Moon died, was drinking four bottles of brandy on stage a night? I got a few words for Pete: The Iron Man, White City, and Deep End Live. How much more can he wring out of the tattered cloth that's left of Tommy? How much further can he run the carburator down on Quadrophenia? How much more tangled within his own post-Acid fasting visions of Baba knows what on Lifehouse can he get?

To quote Entwistle: "I never got what Lifehouse was all about, really."

Anyone see that interview Townshend gave to Rolling Stones a few years back where the interviewer brought up a Danny Fields quote that described Pete as one of his "boyfriends" in the late 60's and Pete just EXPLODED in a near-homophobic/denial rant that was so absurd to the point of practically being an outing. Mind you this was BEFORE the kiddie porn accusations that were eventually withdrawn.

What happened to Pete in the late 90's? He was being very open in the early 90's about his sexuality and the song "Rough Boys" being almost a "coming out" and then all of sudden he reversed this and went back into the closet. I mean, shit, Daltrey seemed to have no problem doing the Freddie Mercury tribute concert - neither did Tony Iommi - but where the fuck as Pete? I mean, c'mon, was everyone gonna think you're a queer if you were there? No one all of sudden was like Daltrey wears pink underpants and Iommi takes it up the rear. Hell, you guys covered Empress Elton's "The Bitch Is Back" for crissakes...I mean, what the fuck? Who cares, Pete? Well, it's long ago now...

Poor John. Daltrey refused to play on his songs until about 1969. His best bud in the band, Moon, died. I don't think that his solo albums, at least the early ones, got the attention they deserved (Muso - care to throw in here?) I don't care what anyone says - "My Wife" is the best song on Who's Next. Great words, great tune.

I could open this up to include George Harrison as well...I might just got there if you all encourage me to. I love the stories of the Get Back sessions where Lennon is falling out of his chair zonked on smack playing "Dig A Pony" and "Don't Let Me Down" over and over again and dismissing Harrison's tunes such as "Hear Me Lord", "All Things Must Pass", "Let It Down", "Beware Of Darkness", "Art Of Dying", and "Beautiful Girl" inbetween nodding off on Yoko's shoulder.

Beatles historian Belmo even claims that "Art Of Dying" was actually first brought by Harrison to the Beatles during the Revolver sessions in 1966 and Lennon laughed him out of the studio. I'm sure Doug Sulpy may have more on this (Muso?)

Ahhhhhhh...rock and roll bands...nothing more than 24 hour encounter group...

Yikes. Talk about exploding! Does Pete still owe you money?
Pete says stuff about his bandmates all the time that he inevitably takes back in the next interview.

FWIW, The Who didn't cover "The Bitch Is Back", it was "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting" (w/ a nod to "Take Me To The Pilot" towards the end).

And yeah, "My Wife" is a great song, but like a lot of John songs, it's a clever novelty number with crunch. There are much better songs on "Smash Your Head Against The Wall" (a very good record).

[stoneylarsen]

Hmm..He doesn't really deny anything here; in fact he pretty much fesses up to his sexuality (which seems about 90 oercent hetero). The only screaming fit happens when they ask him about commercials.

Yeah, you're right...it had been a few years since I read this and maybe it was tainted by the fact that I thought it was a little classless to stoll continue with the tour they were supposed to do with Entwistle.

Still, this makes for an amusing read:

Sexual intimacy?

So what? Yeah. Physical, sexual intimacy, yeah, quite possibly. There's whole chunks of my life I can't remember. But "boyfriend"? [Shakes his head] Once. But twice, it's not possible. It's just not actually possible, that I wouldn't remember it twice. I can accept I might not remember it once, but I can't really deal with the fact that I couldn't remember it twice. Or three times or four times. I don't get it. You know, he was a fucking good friend of mine. It's very difficult for me. I haven't spoken to him since this has come out. I'll just look him in the eye and say, "What the fuck are you talking about? Please tell me."

Have you had many physical encounters with men over the years?

No. [Laughs] No, I haven't.

But it's not something that you're completely closed to?

No. I'm from the Sixties. You know, we tried everything. But . . .

Did or do you consider yourself fundamentally bisexual?

No, I don't. I know that I've got -- and this has got nothing to do with anything I've actually done, or not done -- a very, very feminine side. I think my creative side is very feminine. And I went so far as to say in that interview [with Timothy White in 1989, when Townshend was misunderstood as referring to his bisexuality] that I often feel like a woman; I can see what a woman feels -- the whole act of submission sexually. But, in a sense, what I was talking about was the act of submission sexually in a male-female relationship, that you can swap roles. But that's very common and corny now, in a sense, to even bring it up. And I suppose what I'm doing is taking all of the feminine attributes and regarding them as being passive, gentle, submissive or whatever. But in the sense that my creative side is archly feminine, it is "I want the baby and I want it now!" It's biological. It's absolute. It's the feminine side that says to you [raises voice], "If I need to take heroin, I'll fucking take heroin -- who are you to even raise an eyebrow? If I need to give birth, I shall do it!" But it's got nothing to do with my sexuality.

So, to clarify, in your life when you had sexual encounters with men, did that have anything at all to do with expressing that feminine side?

No. I think what it had to do with -- and to be honest [laughs], I can't remember much about any of it -- was to do with the fact that I was actually completely smashed out of my head. I'm fifty-seven, I've got a young girlfriend, I'm not gay. I'm not interested in men. I don't think I ever really have been. I've had a high sex drive all my life, which has actually been difficult sometimes to reconcile with some of my spiritual aspirations, which are just like, you know, a monk, I suppose. But, no, I think it would have been because I was completely off my face with something. If you want to talk about this, and Danny's the one that's gone into print . . . [loudly] if Danny fucked me, Danny drugged me first. So if you want to fucking print that, then print it. Because that's the truth. It fucking hurts, that he so fucking carelessly said this in the papers. He should have fucking told me what he did to me first.

Aside from the newspaper side of it, do you feel like if that's the case that he mistreated you on a personal level?

No, I don't give a damn! But to actually say that we were boyfriend and girlfriend! Boyfriend and boyfriend. I don't know what he's fucking talking about. [Louder] And this is it. This is the fucking thing that stinks about this whole fucking thing of doing a fucking interview with fucking Rolling Stone magazine in the first place when I don't need to! I don't need the magazine, I don't need you. . . . The tour is sold-out. I don't want to talk about my work, I don't want to talk about the Who, I don't want to talk about any of this shit. But you go and you talk about it, because it seems the polite thing to do. [Shouts] Live in the real fucking world! Live in the real fucking world! . . . I just don't know what Danny is talking about. I know that I spent a night in his house. I don't remember much else about it. You know, I did not go out with him. He is not my type.

Re-reading it makes Danny Fields look more like Leee Black Childers...but Townshend saying "I think it would have been because I was completely off my face with something. If you want to talk about this, and Danny's the one that's gone into print . . . [loudly] if Danny fucked me, Danny drugged me first. So if you want to fucking print that, then print it. Because that's the truth. It fucking hurts, that he so fucking carelessly said this in the papers. He should have fucking told me what he did to me first" sort of does the whole "I didn't inhale" thing to another degree. I don't want to open this up to discuss that Townshend believes he was sexually abused as a child because that is a whole 'nother deal and thread.

[Muso]

\
Poor John. Daltrey refused to play on his songs until about 1969. His best bud in the band, Moon, died. I don't think that his solo albums, at least the early ones, got the attention they deserved (Muso - care to throw in here?)

Sure, I think that Whistle Rymes is the best solo album ever done by any member of the Who. Really-- Great pop songs with bite, and frequently hilarious as well.

Amazing that the later ones (Too Late the Hero) were so terrible.

[stoneylarsen]

Yikes. Talk about exploding! Does Pete still owe you money?
Pete says stuff about his bandmates all the time that he inevitably takes back in the next interview.

Sorry...I went into my Chunklet/Your Flesh mode there for a minute. I've managed to keep it in check for most of this thread.

FWIW, The Who didn't cover "The Bitch Is Back", it was "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting" (w/ a nod to "Take Me To The Pilot" towards the end).

Don't know how I confused that and I do apologise - all the same, though, it still is one of Elton's tunes, which was my whole point...I'm wondering if maybe I heard Queen do a version of "The Bitch Is Back" on bootleg or something and got my wires crossed...???

Cheers!

[Charlemagne]

Sorry...I went into my Chunklet/Your Flesh mode there for a minute. I've managed to keep it in check for most of this thread.
Don't know how I confused that and I do apologise - all the same, though, it still is one of Elton's tunes, which was my whole point...I'm wondering if maybe I heard Queen do a version of "The Bitch Is Back" on bootleg or something and got my wires crossed...???

Cheers!

Shit, we mine as well consildate this thread. Anyone know why Rick Danko appears in the credits for the Kids Are Alright film?

[John D]

Sorry...I went into my Chunklet/Your Flesh mode there for a minute. I've managed to keep it in check for most of this thread.
Don't know how I confused that and I do apologise - all the same, though, it still is one of Elton's tunes, which was my whole point...I'm wondering if maybe I heard Queen do a version of "The Bitch Is Back" on bootleg or something and got my wires crossed...???

Cheers!

No prob, I was laughing really hard at the "How much more tangled within his own post-Acid fasting visions of Baba knows what on Lifehouse can he get?" line. That one and the "prune danish" line are great stuff.

[christocon]

totally amazing thread. between stoneylarsen and charlemagne, i'm reading some of the most thoughtful and informative posts to ever grace this board. well done.

i've only really "discovered" the band in the last 8 or 9 years (i'm 38), so i'm constantly finding new favorites and depths and dimensions to their work. the acoustic "unfaithful servant" rick does in the classic albums documentary is perhaps one of the most devastatingly beautiful renditions i've ever heard of any song, period. i love a lot of the band's work, but that second self-titled album is the most special. it sound so warm.

how great would it have been to hear the band do "red, blue & grey?"

[anatomicallyincorrect]

Shit, we mine as well consildate this thread. Anyone know why Rick Danko appears in the credits for the Kids Are Alright film?

According to the Anyway Anyhow Anywhere book, Danko was in a scene playing cards with Moonie and his girlfriend Annette. He never signed a release form, so it was cut at the last minute.

A couple of other notes:

I thought the tour after the 96/97 Quad tour was to bail out Entwistle. i seem to remember a quote with Pete saying he did the tour to keep The Ox "out of debtors' prison".

I have to loan you Rock Scully's "Living With the Dead". You're absolutely right about the members of the Dead being survivors, but there's no doubt in my mind about their real and sincere grief when Pigpen passed on.

[Charlemagne]

According to the Anyway Anyhow Anywhere book, Danko was in a scene playing cards with Moonie and his girlfriend Annette. He never signed a release form, so it was cut at the last minute.

A couple of other notes:

I thought the tour after the 96/97 Quad tour was to bail out Entwistle. i seem to remember a quote with Pete saying he did the tour to keep The Ox "out of debtors' prison".

I have to loan you Rock Scully's "Living With the Dead". You're absolutely right about the members of the Dead being survivors, but there's no doubt in my mind about their real and sincere grief when Pigpen passed on.

That's true, but very little for Keith Godchaux or Brett Mydland it seemed. It was almost as if their big drug/touring apparatus just sort of shrugged off these casualties and plowed on. In that Rock Scully book I believe there is an account of The Dead hanging out with The Who's crew in Germany for that Rockaplast show in March of 1981. Actually, Bill Kreutzmann's son Juston has some great memories posted on the web of The Who and The Dead from when they played together in Oakland (Day on the Green) and the 1981 Rockaplast show in Germany. Two bands - along with The Band - who have certainly had more than their share of rock n' roll casualties:

http://rockandreel.blogspot.com/2005/09/wh...teful-dead.html

[Charlemagne]

totally amazing thread. between stoneylarsen and charlemagne, i'm reading some of the most thoughtful and informative posts to ever grace this board. well done.

i've only really "discovered" the band in the last 8 or 9 years (i'm 38), so i'm constantly finding new favorites and depths and dimensions to their work. the acoustic "unfaithful servant" rick does in the classic albums documentary is perhaps one of the most devastatingly beautiful renditions i've ever heard of any song, period. i love a lot of the band's work, but that second self-titled album is the most special. it sound so warm.

how great would it have been to hear the band do "red, blue & grey?"

how great would it have been to hear the band do "red, blue & grey?"

I think that would have been one that Rick Danko would have sang very well actually. Another good Danko tune Danko covers on that "Classic Albums" DVD is the acoustic version of "When You Awake". He sort of re-arranges the phrasing from the original version ever so slightly. At times his voice cracks a bit but that is what his ragged vocal charm was all about. It is a little bit sad though to see him so puffy and unhealthy looking. When I met him he was just starting to get heavy. Still, in some ways he looked like the Rick Danko of the Last Waltz era. Sadly though, in the last 3-4 years of his life he really became frightenly obese.

[Charlemagne]

21 years ago this week.

RIP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqbTPVvZ5pA

[Dawson]

"They say everything can be replaced"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0WMBYQL14U&NR

[FrankD]

Rick reminds me of Dee Dee Ramone in that sense.

That is so eerie, and true for me too....