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| jonerik |
Jul 22 2003, 10:48 AM
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#1
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Noise Board Forum Moderator Group: Moderators Posts: 21,893 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 39 |
From the Boston Herald:
What's the matter with rap? Author says hot beats carry dangerous message by Larry Katz Tuesday, July 22, 2003 Rap CDs with dirty words get slapped with stickers warning parents of ``explicit language.'' Don't worry about four-letter words, says Les Taha, author of ``The Architects of Rap: Poison in Our Culture'' (Silverstone Press, $12.95). Worry about the messages these CDs are pounding into the heads of children - particularly African-American children. Maybe these toxic top-sellers, along with the videos that promote them, should carry a warning from the surgeon general: ``Caution. This product may cause psychological harm and damage your life.'' ``Look at 50 Cent, the rapper getting all the attention now,'' Taha says. ``He was a drug dealer and involved in drive-bys and was incarcerated. His personal history is used as a selling point directed at African-Americans, who are experiencing a very high crime rate and a very high incarceration rate. You would think that this would be the last person to be promoted to African-American youth as a hero. Because the truth is that we're not going to make it out of the ghetto by being thugs.'' Taha is a 45-year-old cartoonist from Tacoma, Wash., who makes his thought-provoking points with humor in ``The Architects of Rap,'' which alternates short chapters of straight-talking prose with outrageous drawings showing rappers doing a better job of demeaning black people than the Ku Klux Klan ever did. ``A big wordy book criticizing hip-hop is not going to be read by the people I most want to read this book,'' he says. ``Cartoons make it accessible. A kid might read it if his parents give it to him.'' Taha's main point is that by glorifying ``gangsta'' and ``playa'' lifestyles, most major label rap releases are stereotyping black Americans as sex-crazed simpletons prone to violence. ``The first time I saw a rap video I was shocked,'' Taha says. ``It was like a minstrel show, only worse. It was every type of sterotypical (black) behavior we used to see in the past. I suppose people are used to these videos by now, but that doesn't mean they're OK. You can get used to something that's really wrong.'' But don't these rap stars also provide an image of African-American success? ``There are successful drug dealers, too,'' Taha counters. ``They're also flashy and they like to show off their rings and their cars. But they sell something that hurts the community, same as these rappers. You could say they are Uncle Toms, because they are selling out their race for a dollar bill. Maybe that's harsh, but it's true. If someone sells something that disrupts people's lives and they get rewarded for it, whoa! What kind of message does that send?'' Taha takes care to point out that he is not against rap music or hip-hop culture. ``There's nothing wrong with liking the music,'' he says. ``I like some of it myself. The problem is the message in a lot of it. ``People think that rap songs represent black behavior,'' he says. ``That's why when a white rapper comes along, people say he's emulating black behavior. Young people are getting the message that this is what it means to be black. ``But this `playerism' thing is a disaster. Look at what's happening. Seventy percent of all African-American infants are born to unwed mothers. Seventy percent! ``That's what's hurting us now,'' Taha says, ``not the fact that some waitress won't wait on you in Denny's. Our biggest problems are the family and crime. But then you see rap music and videos that are cheerleaders for these problems. I'm just shocked that more leaders aren't speaking out. I'm convinced that Martin Luther King and Malcolm X would be speaking out against this.'' Taha is not quite a lone voice in the wilderness. His book got immediate support from Boston rapper Akrobatic, whose recent CD ``Balance'' also voices troubling questions about today's hip-hop scene. ``I don't think (Taha) is much like me,'' Akrobatic says. ``Some of what he said offended me. But so many of his points are valid that I'd say this is recommended reading for anyone who has an interest in hip-hop. Because the music that is hammered into our heads influences us. ``His concept of poisoning the culture is so on point. Like he says, if I gave you a plate of rat poison, you wouldn't eat it. But if I mix it with your favorite food, you'll love it. And that's what's happening. The music is good. The beats are hot. But the message is poison. ``I don't think that rap or hip-hop should be devoid of offensive material,'' Akrobatic adds. ``But that's mostly all there is. There's a flood of ignorance.'' What about the argument that nasty rap reflects the harsh realities of black American life? ``The realism is blurred,'' Akrobatic says. ``It makes me angry when rappers put up this false picture of being a person who will shoot anybody who looks at them funny. If they did that, they'd go to jail. But these guys make it seem like this is cool, that it's something they do all the time. If you're 14, you're impressionable, you're being told that if you want to be tough, a real nigga, then this is what you gotta do. But the consequences aren't on display.'' Charles Spurlock, who nodded his head in agreement while looking over ``The Architects of Rap,'' sees the consequences of thug behavior daily. ``These rap songs and videos don't make me angry, they make me sad,'' says Spurlock, a Massachusetts Superior Court judge. ``They glorify violence. What they rap about, nobody pays attention to the end result you see in court. It destroys everything. You don't want to censor art, but it's not artistic anymore. ``I know they say that these songs show reality,'' Spurlock says. ``Well, I'm saying you better get a different reality. Because otherwise you're going to get in jail or get dead.'' E-mail: LKatz@bostonherald.com. |
| DanPM |
Jul 22 2003, 10:59 AM
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#2
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Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 55,983 Joined: June 24 03 Member No.: 195 |
QUOTE ``Look at 50 Cent, the rapper getting all the attention now,'' Taha says. ``He was a drug dealer and involved in drive-bys and was incarcerated. His personal history is used as a selling point directed at African-Americans, who are experiencing a very high crime rate and a very high incarceration rate. You would think that this would be the last person to be promoted to African-American youth as a hero. Because the truth is that we're not going to make it out of the ghetto by being thugs.'' You would think that this would the last person to be promoted to African-american youth as a GYRO. |
| T-Bone |
Jul 22 2003, 11:05 AM
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#3
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Commander-in-Chimp Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 19,187 Joined: June 20 03 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 14 |
Personally, I have never been a big fan of gansta rap. I do enjoy some old school shit like NWA, Geto Boys, and Dr. Dre, but other than that, I stay mostly on the positive tip. A Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul have always been my favorite groups, and Kool Keith is probably one of my favorite MCs (despite the fact that he's an asshole in concert). I just don't find most gangsta rap to be all that creative. Today's creative mavericks are mostly on the Def-Jux label or Anticon.
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| mercyjames |
Jul 22 2003, 11:11 AM
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#4
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Noise Board Sponsor Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 14,410 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 10 |
Rap is cRap. Probably the most overrated form of music ever.
If it wasn't for all the posturing of the ganstas, rap music would probably have had the staying power of doo wop or ska. Just my opinion. |
| DanPM |
Jul 22 2003, 11:13 AM
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#5
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Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 55,983 Joined: June 24 03 Member No.: 195 |
"Rap is cRap"
I think I heard Mark Parenteau make that joke in '95. He has sex with boys. |
| mercyjames |
Jul 22 2003, 11:15 AM
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#6
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Noise Board Sponsor Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 14,410 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 10 |
QUOTE(DanPM @ Jul 22 2003, 11:13 AM) "Rap is cRap" I think I heard Mark Parenteau make that joke in '95. He has sex with boys. Word to your mutha, homeboy. I like girls. White girls with blonde hair. Oh wait... maybe I do have something in common with rappers after all. |
| DanPM |
Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM
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#7
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Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 55,983 Joined: June 24 03 Member No.: 195 |
QUOTE(mercyjames @ Jul 22 2003, 11:15 AM) QUOTE(DanPM @ Jul 22 2003, 11:13 AM) "Rap is cRap" I think I heard Mark Parenteau make that joke in '95. He has sex with boys. Word to your mutha, homeboy. I like girls. White girls with blonde hair. Oh wait... maybe I do have something in common with rappers after all. and kobe |
| SixStringRazor |
Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM
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#8
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Group: Banned Posts: 1,619 Joined: June 23 03 Member No.: 151 |
Black music as a whole hasnt been a relevant creative force since the late 70s/early 80s. Its all bubble gum pop, slow jam r&b or gangster bullshit.
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| T-Bone |
Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM
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#9
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Commander-in-Chimp Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 19,187 Joined: June 20 03 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 14 |
QUOTE(mercyjames @ Jul 22 2003, 12:11 PM) Rap is cRap. Probably the most overrated form of music ever. If it wasn't for all the posturing of the ganstas, rap music would probably have had the staying power of doo wop or ska. Just my opinion. I'm interested to know what makes you dislike it. Certainly a lot of people would agree with you. I remember my dad used to tell me all the time how much he hated rap, but it was primarily because he doesn't like black people. Seriously. Quite the racist, my father. |
| Sul |
Jul 22 2003, 11:17 AM
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#10
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Unregistered |
Even still, hip-hop is infinitely better than indie/emo crap
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| Nixie |
Jul 22 2003, 11:18 AM
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#11
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Queen of the Square-Els Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 14,756 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 13 |
I really enjoy rap as far as musical forms go, but I agree that the gangsta/playa thing is a dangerous role model to present. I'm not one to look to music to form my moral character (perhaps amoral character in my case?) but I can't believe this is a lifestyle people actually aspire to. Along with Akrobatic, check out Mike Ladd and the Majesticons for hip hop with local ties that takes a critical look at the gansta image, the recording industry, and just about everything else.
xoxo, nixie, whitest girl ever. |
| DanPM |
Jul 22 2003, 11:18 AM
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#12
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Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 55,983 Joined: June 24 03 Member No.: 195 |
QUOTE(SixStringRazor @ Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM) Black music as a whole hasnt been a relevant creative force since the late 70s/early 80s. Its all bubble gum pop, slow jam r&b or gangster bullshit. and what have white people done thats been so creative in that time? |
| T-Bone |
Jul 22 2003, 11:19 AM
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#13
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Commander-in-Chimp Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 19,187 Joined: June 20 03 From: Boston, MA Member No.: 14 |
QUOTE(Sul @ Jul 22 2003, 12:17 PM) Even still, hip-hop is infinitely better than indie/emo crap ![]() |
| onlyone |
Jul 22 2003, 11:20 AM
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#14
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Group: Members - Basic Posts: 8,703 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 4 |
QUOTE(T-Bone @ Jul 22 2003, 11:05 AM) Personally, I have never been a big fan of gansta rap. I do enjoy some old school shit like NWA, Geto Boys, and Dr. Dre, but other than that, I stay mostly on the positive tip. A Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul have always been my favorite groups, and Kool Keith is probably one of my favorite MCs (despite the fact that he's an asshole in concert). I just don't find most gangsta rap to be all that creative. Today's creative mavericks are mostly on the Def-Jux label or Anticon. don't forget Chuck D. ![]() gotta love public enemy! |
| charles |
Jul 22 2003, 11:20 AM
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#15
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Noise Board Sponsor Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 5,316 Joined: June 20 03 From: somerville Member No.: 60 |
QUOTE(mercyjames @ Jul 22 2003, 12:11 PM) Rap is cRap. Probably the most overrated form of music ever. If it wasn't for all the posturing of the ganstas, rap music would probably have had the staying power of doo wop or ska. Just my opinion. congrats mercyjames on sharing with us that you don't like rap on a thread that has nothing to do with whether anyone likes rap. |
| SixStringRazor |
Jul 22 2003, 11:20 AM
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#16
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Group: Banned Posts: 1,619 Joined: June 23 03 Member No.: 151 |
QUOTE(DanPM @ Jul 22 2003, 11:18 AM) QUOTE(SixStringRazor @ Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM) Black music as a whole hasnt been a relevant creative force since the late 70s/early 80s. Its all bubble gum pop, slow jam r&b or gangster bullshit. and what have white people done thats been so creative in that time? white music is not marketed as a "genre" in the way that black music is so that isnt my point. |
| pipecleaner |
Jul 22 2003, 11:20 AM
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#17
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Partially Impotent Group: Members - Basic Posts: 13,999 Joined: June 20 03 From: in front of computer screen. Member No.: 37 |
QUOTE(Sul @ Jul 22 2003, 12:17 PM) Even still, hip-hop is infinitely better than indie/emo crap Shit... did I just agree with Sul? |
| DanPM |
Jul 22 2003, 11:23 AM
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#18
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Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 55,983 Joined: June 24 03 Member No.: 195 |
QUOTE(SixStringRazor @ Jul 22 2003, 11:20 AM) QUOTE(DanPM @ Jul 22 2003, 11:18 AM) QUOTE(SixStringRazor @ Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM) Black music as a whole hasnt been a relevant creative force since the late 70s/early 80s. Its all bubble gum pop, slow jam r&b or gangster bullshit. and what have white people done thats been so creative in that time? white music is not marketed as a "genre" in the way that black music is so that isnt my point. are you saying that Wu Tang, Tribe, Ice Cube, and Dr Dre aren't creative forces? |
| Sewer Sucker |
Jul 22 2003, 11:24 AM
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#19
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Unregistered |
Ahh yes the brilliance of white music the last 30 years is astounding!
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| MikeBaldino |
Jul 22 2003, 11:26 AM
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#20
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Noise Board Sponsor Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 8,928 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 3 |
My hero Pete Vasconcellos (see link for more rap reviews) has good stuff to say on the subject:
Do I hate rap now? Is my whiteness invading the pleasure receptors in my brain? I just don't know anymore. In a genre bursting with fake gangsters sambo-ing for an industry buck, Foxxx stands gat and shoulders above the muck because of his realness. With a Ric Flair-like veterans' card for the rap game, cameos with Gangstarr, and a sweet sleeper of a solo album in 2000 called Industry Shakedown, Foxxx (aka Bumpy Knuckles) is no fly-by-nighter. This cat is too simplistic, vulgar and retarded to be anything but a real hardcore underground gangster rapper. His flow is as straightforward as I've ever heard and his raspy growl sounds like it's licking its chops to eat your fake ass alive. But is it good? I mean, the only thing separating this dude from the screaming wino on the back of the bus are some beats from DJ Premier (who, by the way, has standards that are plummeting off the decency charts ... what is it Primo? Gambling? Hookers? Blow? Seriously, man [you're obviously reading this] get a little more discriminating again). So, maybe Bumpy is the real deal, and he'll out flow all the fake niggaz and kill any nigga who thinks about looking at him funny and all that. But just because someone is keeping it real, do we have to give him a fucking record deal? Is this a problem with rap or am I just getting too “Tipper Gore” on your ass? (BBE) SixStringRazor, your comment about "creative force" couldn't be farther from wrong. I'll assume you're just being a ballbuster. |
| mercyjames |
Jul 22 2003, 11:27 AM
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#21
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Noise Board Sponsor Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 14,410 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 10 |
QUOTE(T-Bone @ Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM) QUOTE(mercyjames @ Jul 22 2003, 12:11 PM) Rap is cRap. Probably the most overrated form of music ever. If it wasn't for all the posturing of the ganstas, rap music would probably have had the staying power of doo wop or ska. Just my opinion. I'm interested to know what makes you dislike it. Certainly a lot of people would agree with you. I remember my dad used to tell me all the time how much he hated rap, but it was primarily because he doesn't like black people. Seriously. Quite the racist, my father. I am mostly a melody person. I like good lyrics but usually I listen to the melody of the song. In fact I don't normally even notice the lyrics unless they are particularly bad. That is my main problem with rap. No melody. It also seems that the subject matter is always... "they're out to get me" or "I'm bad because..." or "I wanna bang da bitches..." or whatever. It doesn't hold any relevence in my life. The beats are very static. Hardly any real changes or significant variance through the course of the songs. Also, if there is a cool riff or sound... it gets hammered a million times during the song so it starts to become really annoying. I was raised in a bit of a racist household too... but that's not really my beef with rap. I dig lots of black music (Motown, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, 70s soul, etc.). I was also raised in a suburban mall culture of a thousand little wiggers blasting that cRap (sorry) out of their expensive stereos custom built in their new cars. Maybe that's why I really hate it. How much do I owe you doctor? |
| SixStringRazor |
Jul 22 2003, 11:31 AM
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#22
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Group: Banned Posts: 1,619 Joined: June 23 03 Member No.: 151 |
QUOTE(DanPM @ Jul 22 2003, 11:23 AM) QUOTE(SixStringRazor @ Jul 22 2003, 11:20 AM) QUOTE(DanPM @ Jul 22 2003, 11:18 AM) QUOTE(SixStringRazor @ Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM) Black music as a whole hasnt been a relevant creative force since the late 70s/early 80s. Its all bubble gum pop, slow jam r&b or gangster bullshit. and what have white people done thats been so creative in that time? white music is not marketed as a "genre" in the way that black music is so that isnt my point. are you saying that Wu Tang, Tribe, Ice Cube, and Dr Dre aren't creative forces? There are certainly creative forces working within the genre but the genre itself is stagnant. |
| mercyjames |
Jul 22 2003, 11:32 AM
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#23
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Noise Board Sponsor Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 14,410 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 10 |
QUOTE(charles @ Jul 22 2003, 11:20 AM) QUOTE(mercyjames @ Jul 22 2003, 12:11 PM) Rap is cRap. Probably the most overrated form of music ever. If it wasn't for all the posturing of the ganstas, rap music would probably have had the staying power of doo wop or ska. Just my opinion. congrats mercyjames on sharing with us that you don't like rap on a thread that has nothing to do with whether anyone likes rap. You're right. My bad. I'm sorry. I'll go back to the oldies thread. Sorry to intrude. |
| DanPM |
Jul 22 2003, 11:43 AM
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#24
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Group: Members - Platinum Posts: 55,983 Joined: June 24 03 Member No.: 195 |
You're lookin' at the Fridge,
I'm the rookie. I may be large, but I'm no dumb cookie. You've seen me hit, you've seen me run, When I kick and pass, we'll have more fun. I can dance, you will see The others, they all learn from me. I don't come here lookin' for trouble, I just came here to do The Super Bowl Shuffle. |
| onlyone |
Jul 22 2003, 11:44 AM
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#25
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Group: Members - Basic Posts: 8,703 Joined: June 20 03 Member No.: 4 |
QUOTE(mercyjames @ Jul 22 2003, 11:27 AM) QUOTE(T-Bone @ Jul 22 2003, 11:16 AM) QUOTE(mercyjames @ Jul 22 2003, 12:11 PM) Rap is cRap. Probably the most overrated form of music ever. If it wasn't for all the posturing of the ganstas, rap music would probably have had the staying power of doo wop or ska. Just my opinion. I'm interested to know what makes you dislike it. Certainly a lot of people would agree with you. I remember my dad used to tell me all the time how much he hated rap, but it was primarily because he doesn't like black people. Seriously. Quite the racist, my father. I am mostly a melody person. I like good lyrics but usually I listen to the melody of the song. In fact I don't normally even notice the lyrics unless they are particularly bad. That is my main problem with rap. No melody. It also seems that the subject matter is always... "they're out to get me" or "I'm bad because..." or "I wanna bang da bitches..." or whatever. It doesn't hold any relevence in my life. The beats are very static. Hardly any real changes or significant variance through the course of the songs. Also, if there is a cool riff or sound... it gets hammered a million times during the song so it starts to become really annoying. I was raised in a bit of a racist household too... but that's not really my beef with rap. I dig lots of black music (Motown, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, 70s soul, etc.). I was also raised in a suburban mall culture of a thousand little wiggers blasting that cRap (sorry) out of their expensive stereos custom built in their new cars. Maybe that's why I really hate it. How much do I owe you doctor? QUOTE It also seems that the subject matter is always... "they're out to get me" or "I'm bad because..." or "I wanna bang da bitches..." or whatever. It doesn't hold any relevence in my life. i can totally see that, but this is also a percentage (albeit large) of the style. public enemy doesn't have that spin. granted, even public enemy and other non-gangsta rappers don't have much that speaks to me directly. but i consider it kind of a movie type situation -- i didn't grow up in a mafia household, but i can still enjoy "the godfather." and with artists like cypress hill (i'm thinking of "temple of boom"), i get the impression that they're exaggerating the gangsta elements for a horror type of response, heightening that movie response in me. QUOTE The beats are very static. Hardly any real changes or significant variance through the course of the songs. this is very velvet underground (the entire "velvet underground and nico" record for the most part), too, and numerous other non-rap groups experiment in minimalist arrangements, including tom waits ("jitterbug boy" is nothing but same-y piano playing supporting his vocal). oftentimes, this device of minimalist arranging is used to draw attention to the lyrics rather than to detract from the point. QUOTE Also, if there is a cool riff or sound... it gets hammered a million times during the song so it starts to become really annoying. this is an issue with most 'popular' music, because the general record-buying public is stupid and won't know what the song is called if they don't hear it 7,514 times in three minutes or less. QUOTE I am mostly a melody person. I like good lyrics but usually I listen to the melody of the song. In fact I don't normally even notice the lyrics unless they are particularly bad. That is my main problem with rap. No melody. no way to offer another side to this, because you can't argue with one's taste and what their ear is drawn to. if your ear is drawn to melody, then rap's not for you, definitely, just like if you're into odd meters and complete noise, general pop music isn't for you. just giving my thoughts up with regard to your thoughts -- i'm always interested in interesting discussion and other people's ideas. |
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