Religion, let's have a constructive discussion Options

[Truth be known]

Is Religion something that should guide your life?

Is it healthy to embrace Religion as your guiding path?

Does it belong in the political atmosphere? Do you care?

Are you Religious? How so?

Go!

[His Daddy]

Religion has many meanings, and it depends on if you're buying or selling.

If you're selling -- it's a phenomenal way to control people. It's the BMW of controlling people.

If you're buying -- it's a simple way to not be responsible. It's the credit card morality.

Mind you, some where in the middle of these two ugly philosophies is an incredibly powerful, empowering spiritual, physical, and mental experience. But that seems to be reserved for like five people each year, globally, so fuck it.

[lansdowne]

Religion has many meanings, and it depends on if you're buying or selling.

If you're selling -- it's a phenomenal way to control people. It's the BMW of controlling people.

If you're buying -- it's a simple way to not be responsible. It's the credit card morality.

Mind you, some where in the middle of these two ugly philosophies is an incredibly powerful, empowering spiritual, physical, and mental experience. But that seems to be reserved for like five people each year, globally, so fuck it.

Well put, without a doubt mind control. So was it St.Anns or Sacred Heart school for you I was beaten by middle aged penguins at the latter.

[Mark VI]

live your life the best you can, every day. you don't need anyone to tell you what right and wrong is.

[lansdowne]

live your life the best you can, every day. you don't need anyone to tell you what right and wrong is.

you got it!

[Thatcher]

If there is a God, which I believe there probably is, no one...NO ONE has the mental capacity to understand what that being wants, so to me, I think religion is an instrument of control. Since early man, we've constantly been creating belief systems to make us feel less small, and less alone in the world, to answer the questions "what happens when I die" "what is the meaning of life"...at times civilizations believed in many Gods, at times human and animal sacrifice was acceptable in offerings to please the sun and the earth..now there hundreds of religions around the world (taking into consideration that major religions can't even decide what it is exactly the believe, creating different sects based on a core belief system). All of these religions believe that their understanding of God and what that God wants for them, is the right answer....which to me is extremely arrogant, thinking you and your kind have a better understanding of something that you can't understand than another group who believes just as sincerely that THEY have the true understanding of what God wants. The bottom line is most religions have been an instrument of control and a means to power. If people want to have faith in stories that MEN made up to control other men...then good for them...if it makes them feel more important and less alone, then I'm happy for them..if it makes them feel like their spirit will live on forever, thus fearing death less, it's nice they can achieve that kind of peace.

Personally, I think just living a good life, trying not to hurt people, being kind to other people, helping out those less fortunate than yourself is good enough..and if there is a God out there, and a path to eternal life in it's presence (notice I'm not giving a being we can't comprehend a sex to make something I don't understand more like me)...then I'd hope how I lived my life is enough to warrant access through the gates.

[ƒ(x)]

Religion is important in that it gives theists a reason to feel superior to athiests and athiests a reason to feel superior to theists. I'm agnostic so I'm above all that and therefore superior to both.

[junkstar]

There is balance. It is unavoidable. Ultimately, people who live life with anger, violence and hatred get buried underneath it all. They get back what they send out. People who live life with compassion, grace and devotion eventually weed out the negative people (they can be parasitic but can be removed with time) and find peace, love and individuality. My crunchy granola philosophy, I know, but fact.

[Chong]

children who are sexually abused is proof enough for me that there is no god.

[Brootsquad]

Is Religion something that should guide your life?

Is it healthy to embrace Religion as your guiding path?

Does it belong in the political atmosphere? Do you care?

Are you Religious? How so?

Go!

It shouldn't guide my life, but I can't speak for others who find it helpful with living a good life.

If used as a guiding path for YOUR life, I'm sure it can be very helpful. It's when people decide that everyone elses life should be guided by it as well is when we have a problem. People just can't seem to stop themselves from forcing/pushing their religion on others and telling them how to live their life.

No, it doesn't belong in politics at all, and yes I care.

I am not religious. I'm a Rationalist.

[Lollipop]

I have a friend that has been in a sucky marriage for over 15 years. She's ultra-Catholic and it seems she thinks if she offers up her pain to God she will be taken care of in the next life. So she's sort of resigned to being married to this moron. I don't know. Is religion good or bad in this case?
i'm still trying to decide....

[coughlin]

I have a friend that has been in a sucky marriage for over 15 years. She's ultra-Catholic and it seems she thinks if she offers up her pain to God she will be taken care of in the next life. So she's sort of resigned to being married to this moron. I don't know. Is religion good or bad in this case?
i'm still trying to decide....

any time religion is used as an excuse for willful suffering is bad.
if there's a god, then god's responsible for all this.
i have trouble imagining a god who would wish the holocaust, AIDS and 9/11 on us.
i also have trouble with the whole "god was always there" thing.
which is also to say i don't have any better explanations.

[Lollipop]

any time religion is used as an excuse for willful suffering is bad.
if there's a god, then god's responsible for all this.
i have trouble imagining a god who would wish the holocaust, AIDS and 9/11 on us.
i also have trouble with the whole "god was always there" thing.
which is also to say i don't have any better explanations.

Yeah, I definitely veer toward religion being not good in this case (being the non-believer that I am). I would think if you believe in a benevolent God then you believe God wants you to be happy with the things you CAN change. This friend of mine was born with numerous physical problems. That's something she CAN'T change...she's had to deal with it and she has with the help of God. But continuing to be a rotten marriage with an asshole...I don't think God will sign off on that.

[benhamean]

Supplication before a 'higher power' is not a worthwhile activity. The following terms crack me up in their obsequiousness- 'Worship', 'Praise', Adoration. 'Lord'...

I agree that its a good idea to set some standards for your life with regard to morality and whatnot, but the need to base this on any kind of 'diety' or 'Lord' or 'King', is completely unnecessary. Likewise, blaming one's faults and falilings on such cop-out shit as the 'Devil', or 'Original Sin', takes a huge degree of accountability away...

The fact that so many religions need to retain followers by bribery (with Heaven) or threat (Hell) or by bending 'eternal' dictates straight from the mouth of God when humanity evolves past the boogeymen of the past that they contained, is very revealing.

[ƒ(x)]

i also have trouble with the whole "god was always there" thing.
which is also to say i don't have any better explanations.

Then you should have equal trouble with the idea that matter was always there and the big bang just happened. Until they can trace things back to time 0, we're stuck, even then I think there will be some mystery around the whole creation thing (what about time -1 second?).

[AllMod]

Is Religion something that should guide your life?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'guide your life'? It's not like I'm getting dressed in the morning and stop and ask, "What would Jesus wear?" Does it effect my 'morals'? Probably, to a degree. Would I be any less 'moral' without it? I really can't say, but I'd like to think that I wouldn't.

As for others, it would be nice if everyone had the same views that I did, but that's not realistic. It's really not for me to say what's right for anyone else, each individual has to decide what's right for them. And as long as people are willing to accept me as I am, I'm willing to extend the same courtesy to them. I'm not about to tell someone that they NEED religion or that they are in any way inferior because of their beliefs (or lack of). What's right for me, is just that...right for ME.

Is it healthy to embrace Religion as your guiding path?

Again, not sure what is meant by 'guiding path', but of course I think religion can be healthy.

Does it belong in the political atmosphere? Do you care?

I belive in seperation of church and state. However, if someone is going to say that a person's opinion, if it's effected by their religious beliefs, is somehow less valid that another person's 'secular' opinion, that just plain bunk.

Are you Religious? How so?

I was raised Catholic, considered myself agnostic for most of my late teens and early 20's, but have been back in the church, to varying degrees, for about 10 years now

[Brootsquad]

Supplication before a 'higher power' is not a worthwhile activity. The following terms crack me up in their obsequiousness- 'Worship', 'Praise', Adoration. 'Lord'...

I agree that its a good idea to set some standards for your life with regard to morality and whatnot, but the need to base this on any kind of 'diety' or 'Lord' or 'King', is completely unnecessary. Likewise, blaming one's faults and falilings on such cop-out shit as the 'Devil', or 'Original Sin', takes a huge degree of accountability away...

The fact that so many religions need to retain followers by bribery (with Heaven) or threat (Hell) or by bending 'eternal' dictates straight from the mouth of God when humanity evolves past the boogeymen of the past that they contained, is very revealing.

I completely agree....but I thought we were supposed to be civil about it.

[elk]

My completely scientific examination of the existence of God.

It is commonly accepted that God allows suffering in the world because without evil/sadness/pain/despair we would never understand good/happiness/pleasure/ecstasy. I, however, disagree. What defines the Judo-Christian God is that he is an all powerful being. He is limitless in his power. If this is so, why did he fail to provide/create a scenario in which good/happiness/pleasure/ecstasy could be experienced without the pitfall of having to experience the dark flip-side of those feelings. Certainly, an all powerful creator would be able to figure out a way around this catch-22, even if the solution is outside of human imagination.

Put into context with the "why does suffering exist" conundrum, we are logically led to the following conclusions...

1. God is not all powerful, and therefore fails to live up to the Judo-Christian definition of "God." In this scenario, there is no reason to worship him.

2. God is capable of short-cutting the "why does suffering exist" conundrum, but chooses not to. This means that God is an asshole and is not worthy of being worshiped.

3. There is no God.

I am neither a philosopher nor a theologian, just a guy that sees all the horrible things that happen to people in this world, and all the horrible things that people are capable of doing to each other and fails to find any shred of hope that there is anything at all mystical about our existence.

[Evil Eddie C]

I belive in seperation of church and state. However, if someone is going to say that a person's opinion, if it's effected by their religious beliefs, is somehow less valid that another person's 'secular' opinion, that just plain bunk.

Why is that bunk? Basing your opinions, actions, or morality on an organized religion versus a thought out personal code is a shortcut, and therefore less valid than someone who has taken the time to sort things out on their own.

Accepting a moral edict, simply because an old guy in a funny hat half a world away says to, is the worst way to form an opinion.

[AllMod]

Why is that bunk? Basing your opinions, actions, or morality on an organized religion versus a thought out personal code is a shortcut, and therefore less valid than someone who has taken the time to sort things out on their own.

Accepting a moral edict, simply because an old guy in a funny hat half a world away says to, is the worst way to form an opinion.

I said 'effected by their religious beliefs', not 'dictated to them by an old guy in a funny hat'. I'm against the death penalty partly because I believe life is sacred. Is my opinion any less valid as a result?

[Evil Eddie C]

I said 'effected by their religious beliefs', not 'dictated to them by an old guy in a funny hat'. I'm against the death penalty partly because I believe life is sacred. Is my opinion any less valid as a result?

Hmmm...Well, I am pretty non religious, but I am also against the Death Penalty. There are plenty of reasons to be against the death penalty (primarily because humans are flawed beings who sometimes make mistakes, and making a mistake by frying the wrong person is unacceptable, to me) not based on religious beliefs. I do not believe that human lives are sacred, but I believe that my fellow human beings are to be respected, and not to be killed for any reason other than self preservation.

Your opinion is your own, and I would hope that you would have the courage of your convictions to tell me to fuck off for thinking that it is, yes, less valid because of your use of religion in forming it.

Seriously, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I find religious justifications for opinions weak.

[AllMod]

Hmmm...Well, I am pretty non religious, but I am also against the Death Penalty. There are plenty of reasons to be against the death penalty (primarily because humans are flawed beings who sometimes make mistakes, and making a mistake by frying the wrong person is unacceptable, to me) not based on religious beliefs. I do not believe that human lives are sacred, but I believe that my fellow human beings are to be respected, and not to be killed for any reason other than self preservation.

Your opinion is your own, and I would hope that you would have the courage of your convictions to tell me to fuck off for thinking that it is, yes, less valid because of your use of religion in forming it.

Seriously, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I find religious justifications for opinions weak.

Telling you to fuck off wouldn't be very constructive. But it's ok, I don't think your opinion is valid either. We can call it even.

[Evil Eddie C]

Telling you to fuck off wouldn't be very constructive. But it's ok, I don't think your opinion is valid either. We can call it even.

Heh. I have had very constructive conversations involving that phrase.

We can agree to disagree.

[benhamean]

My completely scientific examination of the existence of God.

It is commonly accepted that God allows suffering in the world because without evil/sadness/pain/despair we would never understand good/happiness/pleasure/ecstasy. I, however, disagree. What defines the Judo-Christian God is that he is an all powerful being. He is limitless in his power. If this is so, why did he fail to provide/create a scenario in which good/happiness/pleasure/ecstasy could be experienced without the pitfall of having to experience the dark flip-side of those feelings. Certainly, an all powerful creator would be able to figure out a way around this catch-22, even if the solution is outside of human imagination.

Put into context with the "why does suffering exist" conundrum, we are logically led to the following conclusions...

1. God is not all powerful, and therefore fails to live up to the Judo-Christian definition of "God." In this scenario, there is no reason to worship him.

2. God is capable of short-cutting the "why does suffering exist" conundrum, but chooses not to. This means that God is an asshole and is not worthy of being worshiped.

3. There is no God.

I am neither a philosopher nor a theologian, just a guy that sees all the horrible things that happen to people in this world, and all the horrible things that people are capable of doing to each other and fails to find any shred of hope that there is anything at all mystical about our existence.

How about this-
God is eternal and omnipotent, but still felt it necessary to create His own admiration society (humankind).
God gets pissed off if He is not constantly and actively revered and worshipped by these whacky creatures (this has softened over the years in more modern societies who can no longer choke down that hooey).
God can only be pleased by supplicating to him in certain, very specific yet cryptic, changing, and disparate ways.
Failing to adhere to those methods of supplication leads one to eternal damnation in HELL.

People actually see wisdom and reality in this kind of thought. Its amazing.

I attribute it to:
Guilt.
Ritual- what you learned from your parents.
Probably some Jungian 'shared-consciousness' thing- primative innate fear of the unknown that requires an immediate reconciliation (no matter how convoluted or illogical).
Politics- its a way to segregate from and demonize others, and find 'allies'.

</blashphemyandcynicism>

[FrankD]

Religion has many meanings, and it depends on if you're buying or selling.

If you're selling -- it's a phenomenal way to control people. It's the BMW of controlling people.

If you're buying -- it's a simple way to not be responsible. It's the credit card morality.

Mind you, some where in the middle of these two ugly philosophies is an incredibly powerful, empowering spiritual, physical, and mental experience. But that seems to be reserved for like five people each year, globally, so fuck it.

deepest post ever. good job.