Robbie Roberston's Last Waltz DVD audio commentry, I was watching it last night and... Options

[Brad Radkins]

This is a great, great thread.

Levon Helm has got to be one of my favorite drummers, ever. His feel, his flourishes and fills, it's all incredible. He's one of those players whose sound is instantly recognizable. Whenever I hear Levon playing I know it's him. There aren't a huge number of drummers that you can say that about on such a consistent basis. Bonham. Moon. Watts. Some others.

I've never heard the Robbie commentary on the DVD, and from the sounds of it I don't want to.

Also: don't forget Levon's drumming on Neil Young's "Revolution Blues." Ferocious.

[Charlemagne]

Also: don't forget Levon's drumming on Neil Young's "Revolution Blues." Ferocious.

And Danko's on bass for that one too.

[Brad Radkins]

And Danko's on bass for that one too.

Like a tuba sledgehammer

[Charlemagne]

Like a tuba sledgehammer

Yes, that is how he approached bass. He was at his most "tuba-like" when he played the Ampeg fretless from 1970-1975.

[stoneylarsen]

Yes, that is how he approached bass. He was at his most "tuba-like" when he played the Ampeg fretless from 1970-1975.

Let us not forget that Rick was playing a Fender VI in the early 60's - here's the scoop on that.

Only other folks I've seen with one from the 60's are The Beatles (John and George alternately), Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac, and Jack Bruce of Cream.

[sagey]

not for nothing, and we've been here before (hi charlemagne)... i'm not really that much of a fan to have a lot of insight into this--so maybe this more pure because i don't know a ton about them--anyone who can't see that rick danko is totally real and cool, and that yeah, robbie robertson is a good guitar player, but a fake, and a guy kinda making it on the backs of others' natural ability and cool... (maybe that's too harsh... but not nearly in the same class as danko, etc.) man, i see a half an hour of that movie and it's just sooo apparent to me. which is also why rr is alive and the others are dead. what's the danko song again? it kills me every time. "and the sun don't shine... " man, robbie robertson can't fuckin shine that guy's shoes... famous friends or not.

[Blodwyn]

not for nothing, and we've been here before (hi charlemagne)... i'm not really that much of a fan to have a lot of insight into this--so maybe this more pure because i don't know a ton about them--anyone who can't see that rick danko is totally real and cool, and that yeah, robbie robertson is a good guitar player, but a fake, and a guy kinda making it on the backs of others' natural ability and cool... (maybe that's too harsh... but not nearly in the same class as danko, etc.) man, i see a half an hour of that movie and it's just sooo apparent to me. which is also why rr is alive and the others are dead. what's the danko song again? it kills me every time. "and the sun don't shine... " man, robbie robertson can't fuckin shine that guy's shoes... famous friends or not.

although, theoretically, robbie wrote that song.
but who knows what the real story is.

[sagey]

although, theoretically, robbie wrote that song.
but who knows what the real story is.

oops. see, i know nothing about them. great song. but again, lots of people have their names on songs that they didn't necessarily write--or they might have written them with their "friends", who didn't get the appropriate credit.

[stoneylarsen]

not for nothing, and we've been here before (hi charlemagne)... i'm not really that much of a fan to have a lot of insight into this--so maybe this more pure because i don't know a ton about them--anyone who can't see that rick danko is totally real and cool, and that yeah, robbie robertson is a good guitar player, but a fake, and a guy kinda making it on the backs of others' natural ability and cool... (maybe that's too harsh... but not nearly in the same class as danko, etc.) man, i see a half an hour of that movie and it's just sooo apparent to me. which is also why rr is alive and the others are dead. what's the danko song again? it kills me every time. "and the sun don't shine... " man, robbie robertson can't fuckin shine that guy's shoes... famous friends or not.

Survival is a bitch - and sometimes what it takes to survive in rock and roll is brutal, uncompromising, mean, and not exactly moral or "right". Just about any successful band or former rock and roller who have survived have left former members and friends, hanger-on's, associates, and sometimes even bodies in their wake. The Rolling Stones are perhaps the most famous example of this, The Grateful Dead another.

Robbie didn't want to play rock and roll the rest of his life, and I'm sure getting it out of his system early was good for him. So many rockers don't make plans for the rest of their life, and suffer because of it, either becoming burnout's, has been's, or cabaret acts/near self-parodies in the process. So many folks don't know when to hang it up.

Levon and Garth have done well for themselves, but the former has his acting and All Starr Band like group who don't emabrrass themselves at all, and the latter did a lot of producing in the 1980's (the one I remember best is The Call - he even appears in the video for "Walls Came Down"). But I'm not sure if Rick and Richard made many post-Band plans. Certainly Rick did okay, but...compared to what Robbie eventually did with his major label eponymous album (where his voice, much of which by that point had lost a lot of audible cohesion, sounds as if he had been smoking two packs of Lucky Strikes a day), his Martin Scorcese directed videos for MYV, and marketing as nearly the Native American Peter Gabriel po9ints in a wholly different direction.

Frankly, that's fine. He was smart, he did well, and the fact that he wrote most of the group's first four albums, and probably an albums worth of tracks that never got released at the time, between 1967 and 1971 is indeed astounding as Muso said. He wrote the songs, he should get the money he earned fair and square.

But the problem is: that particular solo album, and what I have heard him do after it, are frankly not very good. "Hell's Half Acre" off that eponymous album is hysterical because it begs to be taken very seriously and is horrendously dramatic but comes off more like a Chris Rea parody. Robbie has done better, but perhaps he couldn't without Rick, Richard, Garth, and Levon to filter his ideas. Robbie solo is clueless, overproduced, and much ado about nothing. Robbie knows he shot his wad in The Band, but he probably hasn't lost any money trying to give it another go.

I know nothing of the Band's monies and how and even if the other four got performance royalties. I imagine with Albert Grossman as their manager they did okay, but perhaps after he died things changed. Hard to say, really.

All this being said, though, I thought he did a beautiful job with the A Music History box set. Only thing lacking is I felt there could have been more on the DVD (like stuff from the Syria Mosque in Pittsburgh in 1970 or outtakes ["Chest Fever' among them] from The Last Waltz for example), but who knows what may be in store for the future. His ego does not show on the selection for the box. I give him that much and hope he gives us even more soon.

Good night everyone - ths has been a lot of fun.

[Charlemagne]

not for nothing, and we've been here before (hi charlemagne)... i'm not really that much of a fan to have a lot of insight into this--so maybe this more pure because i don't know a ton about them--anyone who can't see that rick danko is totally real and cool, and that yeah, robbie robertson is a good guitar player, but a fake, and a guy kinda making it on the backs of others' natural ability and cool... (maybe that's too harsh... but not nearly in the same class as danko, etc.) man, i see a half an hour of that movie and it's just sooo apparent to me. which is also why rr is alive and the others are dead. what's the danko song again? it kills me every time. "and the sun don't shine... " man, robbie robertson can't fuckin shine that guy's shoes... famous friends or not.

That tune, is "It Makes No Difference". It is definitely considered one of Rick Danko's great vocal performances. I also really like his vocals on "Unfaithful Servant" and "Caldonia Mission".

[Muso]

But the problem is: that particular solo album, and what I have heard him do after it, are frankly not very good. "Hell's Half Acre" off that eponymous album is hysterical because it begs to be taken very seriously and is horrendously dramatic but comes off more like a Chris Rea parody. Robbie has done better, but perhaps he couldn't without Rick, Richard, Garth, and Levon to filter his ideas. Robbie solo is clueless, overproduced, and much ado about nothing. Robbie knows he shot his wad in The Band, but he probably hasn't lost any money trying to give it another go.

That was my point though-- Is there anyone else who wrote such timeless stuff and then lost their muse so completely? That first album was lame as stoney says; the second (Storyville) was better but hardly timelesss; the two acid-Indian albums since then are unlistenable. Whatever he's up to behind the scenes, Robertson's done nothing halfway creative in a good 30 years-- and he's apparenly had no drug/health problems to overcome.

Another famous burnout you can name--- Jagger, Brian WIlson, Peter Green, whoever-- has at least shown sighns ofbeing the sams personwhodid thegenius stuff. EVen SYd Barrett apparently painted. In Robertson's case, zero.

[Charlemagne]

Just to respond to Stoney Larson's mention of Garth's involvement with the 80's band The Call, that same band also had a pretty decent tune dedicated to Richard Manuel called "Everywhere I Go". Back to Garth, after the Last Waltz he played on a lot of sessions by some very notable artists. He is a very quirky individual to say the least. He is now about 70 years old (or is turning 70). One can always take the trip down the Mass Pike into upstate New York (not too far from the Mass border really) and most likely see these guys as they are still somewhat active in the Woodstock area. Levon had many, many ups and downs after the Last Waltz. Ironic that Robbie was all "Mr. Hollywood" because in fact during the early 80's at least Levon had much more sucess as an actor (Robbie wanted to be an actor but his career never took off - "Carney" -... to be fair, he is still very sucessful on the film scoring side). Still, as also mentioned Levon had some serious down turns. His studio burned down; he came close to being bankrupt for a time; and he got involved in a failed theme restaurant concept (Levon's All American Cafe) that cost him a lot. Worst of all, after all those years of heavy smoking he inevidtably got lung cancer in the late 90's and then had to have upwards of 20 radiation treatments to get rid of the cancer. The treatments utterly ravaged his voice and for a time it looked like the man who sang so many great tunes for the Band and had a great southern drawl would forever be quited (not to mention that he came close to dying). Still, Levon has come back in a remarkable manner. Now he is doing a Midnight Ramble up at his place near Woodstock and it is getting a lot of great critical response (I think Elvis Costello performed at the last one). Best of all, Levon voice has returned. It is still somewhat husky but it is pretty much back to form. Levon may not have too many years ahead of him but it is great to see him fight so hard to get back singing because he is a true American treasure.

[Charlemagne]

That was my point though-- Is there anyone else who wrote such timeless stuff and then lost their muse so completely? That first album was lame as stoney says; the second (Storyville) was better but hardly timelesss; the two acid-Indian albums since then are unlistenable. Whatever he's up to behind the scenes, Robertson's done nothing halfway creative in a good 30 years-- and he's apparenly had no drug/health problems to overcome.

Another famous burnout you can name--- Jagger, Brian WIlson, Peter Green, whoever-- has at least shown sighns ofbeing the sams personwhodid thegenius stuff. EVen SYd Barrett apparently painted. In Robertson's case, zero.

I think Robertson is did ok. He had a great run of legendary songs on the first 3 albums Band albums: Big Pink, the self-titled "Brown Album, and Stagefright. Then he aditionally had some decent to really good tunes on albums such as Cahoots to Northern Lights;Southern Cross. That is a solid 6-7 year run. After that he moved on to other things and essentially became someone who periodically "dabbled" in songwriting. I think the bigger more mysterious case of losing one's "muse" due to sudden artistic burnout is really Richard Manuel.

[sagey]

[quote name='stoneylarsen' date='Mar 5 2007, 07:18 PM' post='2809251']
Survival is a bitch - and sometimes what it takes to survive in rock and roll is brutal, uncompromising, mean, and not exactly moral or "right". Just about any successful band or former rock and roller who have survived have left former members and friends, hanger-on's, associates, and sometimes even bodies in their wake. The Rolling Stones are perhaps the most famous example of this, The Grateful Dead another.

Robbie didn't want to play rock and roll the rest of his life, and I'm sure getting it out of his system early was good for him. So many rockers don't make plans for the rest of their life, and suffer because of it, either becoming burnout's, has been's, or cabaret acts/near self-parodies in the process. So many folks don't know when to hang it up.

believe me, i get this, more than you'll ever know...

meantime, the guy still doesn't come off anywhere near as cool or honest or rock n roll as danko... that's all. he definitely seems like "winner". me, i'd rather listen to danko sing.

[Charlemagne]

[quote name='stoneylarsen' date='Mar 5 2007, 07:18 PM' post='2809251']
Survival is a bitch - and sometimes what it takes to survive in rock and roll is brutal, uncompromising, mean, and not exactly moral or "right". Just about any successful band or former rock and roller who have survived have left former members and friends, hanger-on's, associates, and sometimes even bodies in their wake. The Rolling Stones are perhaps the most famous example of this, The Grateful Dead another.

Interesting that you mention the Dead. Those guys were pretty merciless in their approach to the biz and it is quite contrary to the whole mistaken notion of them as gentle hippie types. People came and went in their cirlce. Like the Stones some who were swept up into their orbit never came back. Others came back but ended up serious casualties. Like The Stones too, The Dead circle just would shrug off these tragedies and death with kind of a "sucks to be you attitude". Sentimental they weren't. As you indicate, I think many major bands and musicians have to be like this.

[Muso]

he got involved in a failed theme restaurant concept (Levon's All American Cafe) that cost him a lot.

I saw Morphine play there! Still have the souvenir mug!

[Charlemagne]

I saw Morphine play there! Still have the souvenir mug!

What was the place like? I think the very last show the 1990's version of The Band did was at Levon's All American Cafe. It was a New Year's show and apparently ended dismally with Danko appearing visibly unhappy on stage (which was rare). I read the review of it somewhere. I'll try to find it.

[compare]

I just thought I'd interrupt for a moment to say that this thread is great. OK, you may continue.

[KingStove]

not a fan but here you go...

Danko in Cambridge on Dime A Dozen

[stoneylarsen]

Back to Garth, after the Last Waltz he played on a lot of sessions by some very notable artists. He is a very quirky individual to say the least.

I remember he played with Marianne Faithfull on Blazing Away. No small change that!

[mardon]

Speaking of songs dedicated to/inspired by the Band ... a couple more are Steve Forbert's "Wild as the Wind" and the Drive By Truckers "Danko/Manual" ... Kind of helps to hear the music.

WILD AS THE WIND

Maybe you didn’t know him
But he prob’ly was your friend
He was oddly down to earth
And just as wild as the wind
As the wind
Rick was as wild as the wind

He played the biggest concerts
And the little gig
He always sang his heart out
If the crowd was small or big
Small or big
However small, ever big

CHORUS

“Hey Mister got a minute?”
That’s what he would say
“Hey Mister got a minute?”
Well, I do sir today

Rick would take some cocaine
Didn’t need a straw
He could just swoop down and sniff some
Anytime he saw

If he saw
If there’d be some that he saw
Rick was backstage loaded
I was sorta shocked
The man said, “Rick, it’s show time”
Rick walked out and rocked
And he rocked
Not one bad note and he rocked

(REPEAT CHORUS)

There’s a certain kind of free heart
That’s never bought and sold
There’s a certain kind of wild child
That never should grow old
Getting old
Who'd picture Rick getting old?

Maybe you didn’t know him
But he prob’ly was your friend
He was oddly down to earth
And just as wild as the wind
As the wind
Rick was as wild as the wind

Steve Forbert
Welk Music (ASCAP)/Rolling Tide Music (ASCAP)


DANKO / MANUEL
Let the night air cool you off.
Tilt your head back and try to cough.
Don't say nothing 'bout the things you never saw.
Let the night air cool you off.

I ain't living like I should.
A little rest might do me good.
Got to sinking in the place where I once stood.
Now I ain't living like I should.

Can you hear that singing? Sounds like gold.
Maybe I can only hear it in my head.
Fifteen years ago we owned that road
now it's rolling over us instead.

Richard Manuel is dead.

God forbid you call their bluff.
Like the nightmares ain't enough.
Remember when we used to think that we were tough?
God forbid you call their bluff.

First they make you out to be
the only pirate on the sea.
Then they say Danko would have sounded just like me.
"Is that the man you want to be?"

Can you hear that song? It sounds like gold.
Maybe I could make it bigger overseas.
Fifteen years ago we owned this road
now it only gives us somewhere else to leave.

Something else you can't believe.

Can you hear that singing? Sounds like gold.
Maybe I can hear poor Richard from the grave
singin' where to reap and when to sow
when you've found another home you have to leave.

Something else you can't believe.

Jason Isbell © House Of Fame Music (BMI)
Mellophones and Fender Rhodes - Jason Isbell

[stoneylarsen]

Interesting that you mention the Dead. Those guys were pretty merciless in their approach to the biz and it is quite contrary to the whole mistaken notion of them as gentle hippie types. People came and went in their cirlce. Like the Stones some who were swept up into their orbit never came back. Others came back but ended up serious casualties. Like The Stones too, The Dead circle just would shrug off these tragedies and death with kind of a "sucks to be you attitude". Sentimental they weren't. As you indicate, I think many major bands and musicians have to be like this.

Another band I thought of afterwards was The Who. I am still convinced that John Entwistle died for two reasons:

1) that he thought he could handle a night like he used to do all those years ago despite the heart medication that he'd been on for close to 10 years (I had heard) and the fact that he could not party on it.

2) ...and he couldn't bare the thought of doing yet another tour with Townshend.

Entwistle was a mere 57 when he died.

My second theory I know doesn't hold a lot of water, but again it goes back to what I had discussed previously about Richard Manuel and Ian Curtis. Do I think Entwistle killed himself? No, but I think he may have been in a "fuck it - whatever happens happens" mood that night.

(I couldn't find that famous last photo of him at the bar in olas Vegas looking a little forlorn taken the night he died but I did find this photo which illustrates something else that was discussed earlier in this thread - spot the sports bottle!):

<img src="http://www.popmatters.com/music/concerts/e/images/entwistle-john-030513.jpg">

and

<img src="http://content.clearchannel.com/Photos/musicians/who/entwistle.jpg">

[Muso]

What was the place like? I think the very last show the 1990's version of The Band did was at Levon's All American Cafe. It was a New Year's show and apparently ended dismally with Danko appearing visibly unhappy on stage (which was rare). I read the review of it somewhere. I'll try to find it.

Not a bad place. It was on Decatur St right in the Quarter. Basically a music venue with restaurant seating-- not much memorabilia around, though some of the drinks had appropriate names (I had a Life is a Carnival punch). I believe it was only there one year, and I went at least three times-- saw Morphine, the Dirty Dozen and Lil Queenie (jazz/blues wailer who's pretty famous down there). There was also live music at happy hour.

If anything killed the place it was probably the high rents and the competition from the House of Blues, Tipitinas (had a Quarter branch then), Margaritaville etc..

[Muso]

Oh yeah, I also saw Levon himself there. This was when he was unable to sing so his daughter Amy did; Levon mainly played mandolin, just a little drums.

[stoneylarsen]

Whoops...sorry about that...here we go:



and