Just figured I would give the 9/11 Conspiracy nutters, A helping hand .. Options

[MARSMAN]

Seriously, dude. Give it up. Accept that bad and random things can and do happen on the same day. Accept that just because you don't like the explanation of why something happened, it doesn't mean that the explanation is wrong. I get it. You feel powerless and need to, in your mind, concoct a needlessly complicated conspiracy theory to give yourself the feeling of being "in the loop," or "smarter than the others," but really you're just deluding yourself and avoiding the real issues. I would strongly suggest that you seek counseling to help you get over the obviously intense emotional trauma you suffered as a result of the 9/11 attacks. You need help.

Bingo!

[woof.]

I suffer far more to note that my fellow citizens are so terrified they crawl into the first dark space they can find and hide.

I personally would love to 'give it up' however the questions I have (and not answers mind you) will not allow me in good conscious to do so.

I'm not buying it either.

And MM, If I posted a site that had an anonymous author, tell me I wouldn't get a bunch of laugh-y emoticons from you.

much of the content on that site borders on juvenile, or relies on the "official" version of events and/or "research" to back up[ what he says.

there is a vast amount this guy doesn't even touch on. why he singles out jones(like he is the only one providing any evidence) is ...well, not giving an accurate representation to the other side. But he, like you, have made up their mind, and I'm not going to change it, but I can tell you that he needs to do more ...

[Mike C]

If you truly believe George W. Bush and his band of idiots, directed by another guy in a cave, planned and executed 9-11, you are far more of a fucking moron than i.

good luck!

Reading comprehension, check it. He never said that.

[MikeG]

If you truly believe 12 guys with boxcutters,directed by
another guy in a cave planned and executed 9-11,you far more naive than i.
good luck!

You're right, it took 19 of them.

[MikeG]

people who believe the co-incidence theory are fruitcakes of the highest order.

What is co-incidence?

[Mike C]

[b]All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...

All of them eh..
Plenty of firefighters want a new investigation.
One started WEARECHANGE.ORG and like his father another firefighter who died at WTC, has passed. Dan Wallace.
Or this firefighter. The firefighters hate Rudy and many if not a majority want a new investigation.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DBb00PQR1zo
Listen to him tell you how the maintence worker William Rodriguez saved his life and others. William is also calling for a new investigation and part of the whole group that you lie about. Your words trash heros.

This post has been edited by Mike C: Aug 30 2007, 02:19 PM

[JodyThePig]

Why is that so hard to believe ..? Do you think all of Al-Queda works in a cave with no money no power no anything ..?

The plan was pretty simple, too.

I think some folks just crave dark layers of complexity.

Too much Pynchon in the drinking water, I think.

[Mike C]

The plan was pretty simple, too.

I think some folks just crave dark layers of complexity.

Too much Pynchon in the drinking water, I think.

Satire good one, anybody that I have to constantly look up references with is craving dark layers of complexity? Pynchon!

Brixx, Brah,,,do you have the JTP edition?

[JodyThePig]

Satire good one, anybody that I have to constantly look up references with is craving dark layers of complexity? Pynchon!

You're a beat poet, dude.

[Mike C]

You're a beat poet, dude.

Now you're talking, I know that song. "We got the beat, yeah, WE GOT THE BEAT!"

[HomerRamone]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fisk Described by the New York Times as "probably the most famous foreign correspondent in Britain",[3] he has over thirty years of experience in international reporting, dating from 1970s Belfast and Portugal's 1974 Carnation Revolution, the 1975-1990 Lebanese Civil War, and encompassing the 1979 Iranian revolution, the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war, 1991 Persian Gulf War, and 2003 Invasion of Iraq. He is the world's most-decorated foreign correspondent,[4] having received numerous awards including the British Press Awards' International Journalist of the Year award seven times. http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article2893860.ece
Robert Fisk: Even I question the 'truth' about 9/11

Published: 25 August 2007
Each time I lecture abroad on the Middle East, there is always someone in the audience – just one – whom I call the "raver". Apologies here to all the men and women who come to my talks with bright and pertinent questions – often quite humbling ones for me as a journalist – and which show that they understand the Middle East tragedy a lot better than the journalists who report it. But the "raver" is real. He has turned up in corporeal form in Stockholm and in Oxford, in Sao Paulo and in Yerevan, in Cairo, in Los Angeles and, in female form, in Barcelona. No matter the country, there will always be a "raver".

His – or her – question goes like this. Why, if you believe you're a free journalist, don't you report what you really know about 9/11? Why don't you tell the truth – that the Bush administration (or the CIA or Mossad, you name it) blew up the twin towers? Why don't you reveal the secrets behind 9/11? The assumption in each case is that Fisk knows – that Fisk has an absolute concrete, copper-bottomed fact-filled desk containing final proof of what "all the world knows" (that usually is the phrase) – who destroyed the twin towers. Sometimes the "raver" is clearly distressed. One man in Cork screamed his question at me, and then – the moment I suggested that his version of the plot was a bit odd – left the hall, shouting abuse and kicking over chairs.

Usually, I have tried to tell the "truth"; that while there are unanswered questions about 9/11, I am the Middle East correspondent of The Independent, not the conspiracy correspondent; that I have quite enough real plots on my hands in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Iran, the Gulf, etc, to worry about imaginary ones in Manhattan. My final argument – a clincher, in my view – is that the Bush administration has screwed up everything – militarily, politically diplomatically – it has tried to do in the Middle East; so how on earth could it successfully bring off the international crimes against humanity in the United States on 11 September 2001?

Well, I still hold to that view. Any military which can claim – as the Americans did two days ago – that al-Qa'ida is on the run is not capable of carrying out anything on the scale of 9/11. "We disrupted al-Qa'ida, causing them to run," Colonel David Sutherland said of the preposterously code-named "Operation Lightning Hammer" in Iraq's Diyala province. "Their fear of facing our forces proves the terrorists know there is no safe haven for them." And more of the same, all of it untrue.

Within hours, al-Qa'ida attacked Baquba in battalion strength and slaughtered all the local sheikhs who had thrown in their hand with the Americans. It reminds me of Vietnam, the war which George Bush watched from the skies over Texas – which may account for why he this week mixed up the end of the Vietnam war with the genocide in a different country called Cambodia, whose population was eventually rescued by the same Vietnamese whom Mr Bush's more courageous colleagues had been fighting all along.

But – here we go. I am increasingly troubled at the inconsistencies in the official narrative of 9/11. It's not just the obvious non sequiturs: where are the aircraft parts (engines, etc) from the attack on the Pentagon? Why have the officials involved in the United 93 flight (which crashed in Pennsylvania) been muzzled? Why did flight 93's debris spread over miles when it was supposed to have crashed in one piece in a field? Again, I'm not talking about the crazed "research" of David Icke's Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster – which should send any sane man back to reading the telephone directory.

I am talking about scientific issues. If it is true, for example, that kerosene burns at 820C under optimum conditions, how come the steel beams of the twin towers – whose melting point is supposed to be about 1,480C – would snap through at the same time? (They collapsed in 8.1 and 10 seconds.) What about the third tower – the so-called World Trade Centre Building 7 (or the Salmon Brothers Building) – which collapsed in 6.6 seconds in its own footprint at 5.20pm on 11 September? Why did it so neatly fall to the ground when no aircraft had hit it? The American National Institute of Standards and Technology was instructed to analyse the cause of the destruction of all three buildings. They have not yet reported on WTC 7. Two prominent American professors of mechanical engineering – very definitely not in the "raver" bracket – are now legally challenging the terms of reference of this final report on the grounds that it could be "fraudulent or deceptive".

Journalistically, there were many odd things about 9/11. Initial reports of reporters that they heard "explosions" in the towers – which could well have been the beams cracking – are easy to dismiss. Less so the report that the body of a female air crew member was found in a Manhattan street with her hands bound. OK, so let's claim that was just hearsay reporting at the time, just as the CIA's list of Arab suicide-hijackers, which included three men who were – and still are – very much alive and living in the Middle East, was an initial intelligence error.

But what about the weird letter allegedly written by Mohamed Atta, the Egyptian hijacker-murderer with the spooky face, whose "Islamic" advice to his gruesome comrades – released by the CIA – mystified every Muslim friend I know in the Middle East? Atta mentioned his family – which no Muslim, however ill-taught, would be likely to include in such a prayer. He reminds his comrades-in-murder to say the first Muslim prayer of the day and then goes on to quote from it. But no Muslim would need such a reminder – let alone expect the text of the "Fajr" prayer to be included in Atta's letter.

Let me repeat. I am not a conspiracy theorist. Spare me the ravers. Spare me the plots. But like everyone else, I would like to know the full story of 9/11, not least because it was the trigger for the whole lunatic, meretricious "war on terror" which has led us to disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan and in much of the Middle East. Bush's happily departed adviser Karl Rove once said that "we're an empire now – we create our own reality". True? At least tell us. It would stop people kicking over chairs.

[MARSMAN]

there is a vast amount this guy doesn't even touch on. why he singles out jones(like he is the only one providing any evidence) is ...well, not giving an accurate representation to the other side. But he, like you, have made up their mind, and I'm not going to change it, but I can tell you that he needs to do more ...

What he does not touch hardly matters considering the overwhelming amount of evidence and debunking he does talk about ...

Just ask yourself a common sense question ..

How did who ever you think did this cover it up .. I listed the part where he goes into how many people would have to keep quite ..

And not ONE person has come out to say they were silenced ..not one!

Christ I hear wackos going off about the Pentagon and how it was not a plane ..Yet I have a close family member that was there that day ..and only about 200 yards from the outer edge of damage ..when I told him the claims me almost wet his pants ..

Yeah he was lying to me

I have not made up my mind on anything for any reason I am using nothing more than common sense to say nobody could have pulled such a huge thing off without some sort of people singing ..

But no not a one ..

As far as the questons that are not being addressed ...ask any have assed lawyer if he can do the same with ANYTHING and ANY stor he is presented ..

[Mike C]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fisk Described by the New York Times as "probably the most famous foreign correspondent in Britain",[3] he has over thirty years of experience in international reporting, dating from 1970s Belfast and Portugal's 1974 Carnation Revolution, the 1975-1990 Lebanese Civil War, and encompassing the 1979 Iranian revolution, the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war, 1991 Persian Gulf War, and 2003 Invasion of Iraq. He is the world's most-decorated foreign correspondent,[4] having received numerous awards including the British Press Awards' International Journalist of the Year award seven times. http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article2893860.ece
Robert Fisk: Even I question the 'truth' about 9/11

Published: 25 August 2007
Each time I lecture abroad on the Middle East, there is always someone in the audience – just one – whom I call the "raver". Apologies here to all the men and women who come to my talks with bright and pertinent questions – often quite humbling ones for me as a journalist – and which show that they understand the Middle East tragedy a lot better than the journalists who report it. But the "raver" is real. He has turned up in corporeal form in Stockholm and in Oxford, in Sao Paulo and in Yerevan, in Cairo, in Los Angeles and, in female form, in Barcelona. No matter the country, there will always be a "raver".

His – or her – question goes like this. Why, if you believe you're a free journalist, don't you report what you really know about 9/11? Why don't you tell the truth – that the Bush administration (or the CIA or Mossad, you name it) blew up the twin towers? Why don't you reveal the secrets behind 9/11? The assumption in each case is that Fisk knows – that Fisk has an absolute concrete, copper-bottomed fact-filled desk containing final proof of what "all the world knows" (that usually is the phrase) – who destroyed the twin towers. Sometimes the "raver" is clearly distressed. One man in Cork screamed his question at me, and then – the moment I suggested that his version of the plot was a bit odd – left the hall, shouting abuse and kicking over chairs.

Usually, I have tried to tell the "truth"; that while there are unanswered questions about 9/11, I am the Middle East correspondent of The Independent, not the conspiracy correspondent; that I have quite enough real plots on my hands in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Iran, the Gulf, etc, to worry about imaginary ones in Manhattan. My final argument – a clincher, in my view – is that the Bush administration has screwed up everything – militarily, politically diplomatically – it has tried to do in the Middle East; so how on earth could it successfully bring off the international crimes against humanity in the United States on 11 September 2001?

Well, I still hold to that view. Any military which can claim – as the Americans did two days ago – that al-Qa'ida is on the run is not capable of carrying out anything on the scale of 9/11. "We disrupted al-Qa'ida, causing them to run," Colonel David Sutherland said of the preposterously code-named "Operation Lightning Hammer" in Iraq's Diyala province. "Their fear of facing our forces proves the terrorists know there is no safe haven for them." And more of the same, all of it untrue.

Within hours, al-Qa'ida attacked Baquba in battalion strength and slaughtered all the local sheikhs who had thrown in their hand with the Americans. It reminds me of Vietnam, the war which George Bush watched from the skies over Texas – which may account for why he this week mixed up the end of the Vietnam war with the genocide in a different country called Cambodia, whose population was eventually rescued by the same Vietnamese whom Mr Bush's more courageous colleagues had been fighting all along.

But – here we go. I am increasingly troubled at the inconsistencies in the official narrative of 9/11. It's not just the obvious non sequiturs: where are the aircraft parts (engines, etc) from the attack on the Pentagon? Why have the officials involved in the United 93 flight (which crashed in Pennsylvania) been muzzled? Why did flight 93's debris spread over miles when it was supposed to have crashed in one piece in a field? Again, I'm not talking about the crazed "research" of David Icke's Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster – which should send any sane man back to reading the telephone directory.

I am talking about scientific issues. If it is true, for example, that kerosene burns at 820C under optimum conditions, how come the steel beams of the twin towers – whose melting point is supposed to be about 1,480C – would snap through at the same time? (They collapsed in 8.1 and 10 seconds.) What about the third tower – the so-called World Trade Centre Building 7 (or the Salmon Brothers Building) – which collapsed in 6.6 seconds in its own footprint at 5.20pm on 11 September? Why did it so neatly fall to the ground when no aircraft had hit it? The American National Institute of Standards and Technology was instructed to analyse the cause of the destruction of all three buildings. They have not yet reported on WTC 7. Two prominent American professors of mechanical engineering – very definitely not in the "raver" bracket – are now legally challenging the terms of reference of this final report on the grounds that it could be "fraudulent or deceptive".

Journalistically, there were many odd things about 9/11. Initial reports of reporters that they heard "explosions" in the towers – which could well have been the beams cracking – are easy to dismiss. Less so the report that the body of a female air crew member was found in a Manhattan street with her hands bound. OK, so let's claim that was just hearsay reporting at the time, just as the CIA's list of Arab suicide-hijackers, which included three men who were – and still are – very much alive and living in the Middle East, was an initial intelligence error.

But what about the weird letter allegedly written by Mohamed Atta, the Egyptian hijacker-murderer with the spooky face, whose "Islamic" advice to his gruesome comrades – released by the CIA – mystified every Muslim friend I know in the Middle East? Atta mentioned his family – which no Muslim, however ill-taught, would be likely to include in such a prayer. He reminds his comrades-in-murder to say the first Muslim prayer of the day and then goes on to quote from it. But no Muslim would need such a reminder – let alone expect the text of the "Fajr" prayer to be included in Atta's letter.

Let me repeat. I am not a conspiracy theorist. Spare me the ravers. Spare me the plots. But like everyone else, I would like to know the full story of 9/11, not least because it was the trigger for the whole lunatic, meretricious "war on terror" which has led us to disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan and in much of the Middle East. Bush's happily departed adviser Karl Rove once said that "we're an empire now – we create our own reality". True? At least tell us. It would stop people kicking over chairs.

Excellent piece of writing. Less raving, kicking over chairs with discussion of the real lingering questions.

This post has been edited by Mike C: Aug 30 2007, 03:12 PM

[Dave K.]

Anybody (see Fisk manifesto above) who brings up the melting point
of steel in relation to the combustion temp. for jet fuel immediatelyinvalidates what they have to say.

It was never claimed that the steel melted. It was weakened.

[MARSMAN]

much of the content on that site borders on juvenile, or relies on the "official" version of events and/or "research" to back up

You don't like that one ok here is another

And here is all the people that signed off on it ..Tell me they are all lying as well ..

Air Crash AnalysisCleveland Center regional air traffic control

Bill Crowley special agent, FBI

Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants

Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.

Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes

Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)

Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority

Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)

Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA

Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center

Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.

James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office

Jeff Pillets senior writer,
The Record, Hackensack, NJ

Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service

Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
119th Wing, North Dakota
Air National Guard

Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene

Air Defense
Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
U.S. Air Force

Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
Tyndall Air Force Base

Boston Center regional air traffic control

Laura Brown spokeswoman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation

Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board

Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board

Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
North American Aerospace Defense Command

Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
Andrews AFB

Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command

John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org

Hank Price spokesman, Federal
Aviation Administration

Warren Robak RAND Corp.

Bill Shumann spokesman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB

Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport

Aviation
Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology

Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman

Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert

Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week
Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center

Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman

Image Analysis
William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill

W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
FEMA Probe Team

Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group

Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week

Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.

Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University

Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness

Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
University of California, San Diego

Structural Engineering / Building CollapseFarid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction

David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report

Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.

Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee

Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety

John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team

Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts

Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response

Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University

William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA

John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor

Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University

James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee

Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash

Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon

Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology

Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University

Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

[elk]

It was never claimed that the steel melted. It was weakened.

Jesus Christ, Dave K is in on it!!!!!!!!!

[Dave K.]

Jesus Christ, Dave K is in on it!!!!!!!!!

My real name is...Mohamed Atta.

[MARSMAN]

"Robert Fisk: Even I question the 'truth' about 9/11 "

Even I ...??

Robert Fisk has never had any love for the USA or Israel ..

Christ he even claimed it was Osama that was behind the attacks ...

[JodyThePig]

People only want to assume that the Bush administration was behind the WTC collapse because if it were true that it was all actually Al Qaeda's doing, that would mean that their god's more powerful than ours.

[HomerRamone]

Anybody (see Fisk manifesto above) who brings up the melting point of steel in relation to the combustion temp. for jet fuel mmediately invalidates what they have to say.
It was never claimed that the steel melted. It was weakened.

I don't know if that point is valid or not, but even if it isn't, it doesn't invalidate all the other questions that are not based upon it...

[woof.]

What he does not touch hardly matters considering the overwhelming amount of evidence and debunking he does talk about ...

Just ask yourself a common sense question ..

How did who ever you think did this cover it up .. I listed the part where he goes into how many people would have to keep quite ..

And not ONE person has come out to say they were silenced ..not one!

Christ I hear wackos going off about the Pentagon and how it was not a plane ..Yet I have a close family member that was there that day ..and only about 200 yards from the outer edge of damage ..when I told him the claims me almost wet his pants ..

Yeah he was lying to me

I have not made up my mind on anything for any reason I am using nothing more than common sense to say nobody could have pulled such a huge thing off without some sort of people singing ..

But no not a one ..

As far as the questons that are not being addressed ...ask any have assed lawyer if he can do the same with ANYTHING and ANY stor he is presented ..

how many people kept the manhattan project a secret? for how long? my guess is over 100K

it'd be very easy to keep people quiet. money, threats of losing their jobs, lives, family...

And not ONE person has come out to say they were silenced ..not one!

do I need to point out the irony of this comment? I'll have to double check, but I'm almost positive the Air Force pilots were ordered not to discuss the issue...you can bet there are more.

Like I said before, I've read enough to know that what we've been told isn't an accurate nor truthful account of the events of the day. I'm not going to speculate on wild theories, but the simple application of scientific process casts doubt on many events of 9/11.

check out some of the latest research from..."the other side", it's quite fascinating, actually. Granted, some of it is a stretch, but some is not.

[MARSMAN]

I don't know if that point is valid or not, but even if it isn't, it doesn't invalidate all the other questions that are not based upon it...

You can raise a question about just about any event ..just because you have questions does not invalidate the actual truth ..

Jesus christ

[MARSMAN]

[how many people kept the manhattan project a secret? for how long? [/quote]

Apples to Oranges ..they were developing a WEAPON to save the USA ..that is a different mindset as was the the mindset of the entire USA at the time

9/11 was the outright slaughter of 3000+ innocent people ...

To save face in this arguement I am sure you will say there is no difference but truthfully there is ..a FUCKING HUGE DIFFERENCE ..

[MARSMAN]

Like I said before, I've read enough to know that what we've been told isn't an accurate nor truthful account of the events of the day. I'm not going to speculate on wild theories, but the simple application of scientific process casts doubt on many events of 9/11.

Sparky ..

Please tell me all these people were either wrong or paid or threatened with life and family ..

Please tell me Chrissy's uncle was lying to me and is most likely threatened at The Pentagon

[MikeG]

Anybody (see Fisk manifesto above) who brings up the melting point
of steel in relation to the combustion temp. for jet fuel immediatelyinvalidates what they have to say.

It was never claimed that the steel melted. It was weakened.

That's ok, they're not really concerned with facts. They're more concerned with finding the truth about statements that they manufacture to begin with.