Obama starting to use the race card?, I'm losing respect - and fast - for Obama Options

[Billy Chapel]

Media Continue to Study 'Race Card' in Obama-Clinton Showdown

By Greg Mitchell

Published: January 13, 2008 11:45 AM ET

NEW YORK (Commentary) After the surprising results on the Democratic side in New Hampshire, race and gender politics have really come to the fore in the media and even, at times, on the campaign trail.

HIllary Clinton, on "Meet the Press" on Sunday, continued to hit The New York Times' version of her remarks about the relative roles of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and President Lyndon Johnson in passing civil rights legislation. Tim Russert opened the show by reading from The State, South Carolina’s largest paper, which reported yesterday: “Sharp criticism of Barack Obama and other comments about Martin Luther King Jr. — all from people associated with Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign — have generated resentment among some black S.C. voters.”

Clinton replied: "Beats me, because there’s not one shred of truth in what you’ve just read."

The New York Times carried yet another article about the dispute today, and the same paper, at the top of the front page of its Week in Review section, carried huge side-by-side photos of iconic 19th century women's rights and black rights leaders.

John Judis, meanwhile, is out with a piece at The New Republic's web site attempting to debunk the notion that even a small part of the reason for the Obama loss in New Hampshire might be attributed to certain whites telling pollsters one thing and then voting differently. He may or may not be right, and everyone eagerly awaits pollster Andrew Kohut's promised look inside the numbers (Kohut has said he thinks there is something to the racial bias theory).

But why do so many pundits, particularly on the left, feel it's ridiculous to suggest that race might still be a key factor when Americans go to the polls?

It would seem that the only way you could claim that there is no race-tinged voting today would be to hold that racism has been completely wiped out in America. Does anyone seriously believe that?

There's no way it could not have been a factor at all in nearly all-white New Hampshire, or everywhere else where (unlike in Iowa and Nevada caucuses) votes are cast in private -- especially with a black man having a real shot at becoming president. It's just a matter of the size of it: very modest or fairly significant? Judis feels -- really, guesses -- it was very modest, at most.

It's fine to say that a flood of women flocked to Hillary's side on the final day, but does anyone really believe only a very few them had a single racist bone in their bodies? Yet Judis writes that the "explosive claim" that more than a few voters in New Hampshire are not ready for a black president "deserves to have been backed up by some kind of evidence."

But what airtight evidence could possibly prove what crucial factors really went into anyone's very private, and no doubt, mixed emotions on Election Day? Balance that against history and logic, which suggests that racial bias is still real, for now, and as such has to play a role.

By the same token, does anyone really believe that some men (or for that, matter, their wives) simply won't vote for a woman as president right now? In fact, the Obama-Clinton "bias" vote may have simply canceled each other out in New Hampshire.

If Hillary makes the finals this fall will anyone then claim that gender bias is a total non-factor? If she loses to, say, McCain by 2% will you really feel that it played no role? I'm glad we've come a long way, baby, but we have a ways to go.

[elk]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I don't see any evidence of "Obama starting to use the race card" in that article.

[Charlemagne]

Let me remind you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxTnHx5qVQU...feature=related

[Indyrockgrl69]

Looks to me like Hillary really is divisive.

[guest of a friend]

Yeah, that article had absolutely nothing to do with Obama.

If that article makes you not like Obama, you never liked him to begin with.

[Billy Chapel]

ok, fine here's a better one...I wasn't sure who I liked. I suppose that I liked Obama, but I was worried that he was only a state senator two years ago. I can't stand hillary, but I feel like she'd put together the best team for the country.

This makes me lose respect for Obama.


No go back to your terror sympathizers in Iran, guest of a friend...




Clinton, Obama clash over race issue

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press WriterMon Jan 14, 6:22 AM ET

Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama have become embroiled in racially tinged disputes as large numbers of black voters prepare to get their first say in the Democratic presidential campaign.

The candidates and their surrogates are heating up their rhetoric, and it could prove to be combustible beyond South Carolina's Jan. 26 primary.

Clinton, on defense over comments that she and her husband made regarding Martin Luther King Jr.'s legacy and Obama's fitness for the White House, tried to turn the tables on her top primary rival. She accused his campaign of looking to score political points by distorting their words.

Hillary Clinton had said King's dream of racial equality was realized only when President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, while Bill Clinton said Illinois Sen. Obama was telling a "fairy tale" about his opposition to the Iraq war. Black leaders have criticized their comments, and Obama said Sunday her comment about King was "ill-advised."

"I think it offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act," he told reporters on a conference call. "She is free to explain that, but the notion that somehow this is our doing is ludicrous."

As evidence the Obama campaign had pushed the story, Clinton advisers pointed to a memo written by an Obama staffer compiling examples of comments by Clinton and her surrogates that could be construed as racially insensitive. The memo later surfaced on some political Web sites.

"This is an unfortunate story line the Obama campaign has pushed very successfully," the former first lady said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press." "I don't think this campaign is about gender, and I sure hope it's not about race."

Clinton taped the show before appearances in South Carolina, where at least half the primary voters are expected to be black. On Monday, she planned to attend a union event honoring King's legacy in New York City.

But no sooner had Clinton said she hoped the campaign would not be about race than it got even more heated. A prominent black Clinton supporter, Black Entertainment Television founder Bob Johnson, criticized Obama and seemed to refer to his acknowledged teenage drug use while introducing Clinton at her next event.

"To me, as an African-American, I am frankly insulted the Obama campaign would imply that we are so stupid that we would think Hillary and Bill Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues — when Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood; I won't say what he was doing, but he said it in his book — when they have been involved," Johnson said.

Obama wrote about his youthful drug use — marijuana, alcohol and sometimes cocaine — in his memoir, "Dreams from My Father."

Johnson later said in a statement released by the Clinton campaign that his comments referred to Obama's work as a community organizer in Chicago "and nothing else. Any other suggestion is simply irresponsible and incorrect."

Another Clinton campaign official, Bill Shaheen, resigned last month after suggesting Democrats should be wary of nominating Obama because his past drug use could be used against him in the campaign.

Obama, campaigning in Las Vegas, declined to respond to Johnson.

"I'm not going to spend all my time running down the other candidates, which seems to be what Senator Clinton has been obsessed with for the last month," Obama said.

His strategist, however, didn't spare Johnson or Clinton.

"I don't see why this is so much different from what Billy Shaheen did in New Hampshire," David Axelrod said. "Senator Clinton apologized for that. It's bewildering why, since she was standing there, she had nothing to say about this."

Clinton was not yet on stage when Johnson made his statements and she did not mention them when she emerged.

Meanwhile, in Atlanta, Obama's wife rose to his defense over Bill Clinton's "fairy tale" comment. Michelle Obama said some blacks might be skeptical that white America will elect her husband, but advised them to look to his win in Iowa.

"Ain't no black people in Iowa," she said during a speech at the Trumpet Awards, an event celebrating black achievement. "Something big, something new is happening. Let's build the future we all know is possible. Let's show our kids that America is ready for Barack Obama right now."

John Edwards, a third candidate in the Democratic primary, waded into the dispute Sunday.

"I must say I was troubled recently to see a suggestion that real change came not through the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King but through a Washington politician. I fundamentally disagree with that," Edwards told more than 200 people gathered at a predominantly black Baptist church in Sumter, S.C.

[Charlemagne]

Billy,

Hillary's team and Obama's team would most likely be very similar in that the inner circles of Washington power always find there way into presidential administrations. Case in point, people in Reagan's administration were part of the Nixon and Ford administration. Bill Clinton's team were affiliated with the Carter administration, etc. A guy like Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan was with both the Kennedy administration and the Nixon. On it goes. These are the real power brokers. Obama's team wouldn't be all that much different than Hillary'. Therefore, ultiately this is an argument about executive experience in the Oval Office. In this case, yes Obama is about as experienced for the Commander in Chief's position as our own Senator Stephen Lynch. However, it could be argued that Hillary is not necessarily that much more experienced. I personally don't think her time in the Senate has been all that remarkable. As first lady she was undoubtly a trailblazer though. I think she is certainly a bit more experienced than Obama but she can't play that hand too hard because it could come back at her as people really pick apart her brief Senate record and her few policy moments before that.

[guest of a friend]

Well, I wouldn't choose Obama, but to think Hillary is more "moral" is a bit of a joke.

I could really care less about how they convince people to vote for them... I care about their political record and their plans...

Neither is lefty enough for me, by far, so I'm not jumping for joy at the prospects of either... though the drubbing the Republicans are sure to get does make me quite happy.

Throw them ALL out, bring in a lot more oversight and regulations and start over...

[Billy Chapel]

Billy,

Hillary's team and Obama's team would most likely be very similar in that the inner circles of Washington power always find there way into presidential administrations. Case in point, people in Reagan's administration were part of the Nixon and Ford administration. Bill Clinton's team were affiliated with the Carter administration, etc. A guy like Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan was with both the Kennedy administration and the Nixon. On it goes. These are the real power brokers. Obama's team wouldn't be all that much different than Hillary'. Therefore, ultiately this is an argument about executive experience in the Oval Office. In this case, yes Obama is about as experienced for the Commander in Chief's position as our own Senator Stephen Lynch. However, it could be argued that Hillary is not necessarily that much more experienced. I personally don't think her time in the Senate has been all that remarkable. As first lady she was undoubtly a trailblazer though. I think she is certainly a bit more experienced than Obama but she can't play that hand too hard because it could come back at her as people really pick apart her brief Senate record and her few policy moments before that.

I have a great deal of understanding when it comes to these things. You don't need to remind me of these facts.

let me be more specific.

I want bill back.

that's all.

[guest of a friend]

I have a great deal of understanding when it comes to these things. You don't need to remind me of these facts.

let me be more specific.

I want bill back.

that's all.

Jesus.

[guest of a friend]

And, let me add, that Obama didn't start the use of the race card... every column that said "is America not racist anymore?" started it...

Actually, the color of his skin started it...

Should he be allowed to play it...?

Who knows.

[Billy Chapel]

Jesus.

no, just bill

[Charlemagne]

I have a great deal of understanding when it comes to these things. You don't need to remind me of these facts.

let me be more specific.

I want bill back.

that's all.

It will be interesting to see what role he would play because the overall "dynamic" of their relationship has changed. I am sure she could see him as a potential rival to her own power.

[guest of a friend]

no, just bill

Well, that won't happen.

She's a lot more hawkish than he was and she's a lot less likely to do anything but rubberstamp meaningless centrisy garbage... she certainly won't "change" jackshit.. neither will he...

Well... she'll change things compared to Bush, but talk about your baby steps.

[Billy Chapel]

It will be interesting to see what role he would play because the overall "dynamic" of their relationship has changed. I am sure she could see him as a potential rival to her own power.

I'm sure the same way that he saw her as one to his.

As I understand it, she constantly played the bill card with committee chairs, the democratic party, budget folks and anyone who had a brain and was scared of her. Bill would just kinda deal with it from what I've read. I forgot where I read that, but it was basically a story about how she would often use her position to get some legislation passed. I don't mind, really.

Bill would be the "let me go off to France, Israel, Germany and the rest of the world to repair relationships" guy. And he'd do a hell of a job at it. Plus, he'd get to bang everything in sight while on trips and Hillary could get rid of him and do her lesbian thing.

[guest of a friend]

Plus, he'd get to bang everything in sight while on trips and Hillary could get rid of him and do her lesbian thing.

[Billy Chapel]

yup

[guest of a friend]

yup

ha!

I gotta say, those are some sketchy-ass reasons to vote for a President.

[Atom Brain]

And, let me add, that Obama didn't start the use of the race card... every column that said "is America not racist anymore?" started it...

Actually, the color of his skin started it...

Should he be allowed to play it...?

Who knows.

I agree. His race has been brought up by pretty much everyone and if he addresses it he's the one playing the race card. Weird.

[Charlemagne]

The Clinton smear team is going to make Obama wish he never ran for President. They are pretty much up there with Nixon' crowd and and Karl Rove.

[Atom Brain]

The Clinton smear team is going to make Obama wish he never ran for President. They are pretty much up there with Nixon' crowd and and Karl Rove.

I think smear has reached its tipping point. It seems like smear campaigns back fire these days...

[guest of a friend]

I agree. His race has been brought up by pretty much everyone and if he addresses it he's the one playing the race card. Weird.

Well, he is a fancy indoors nigger.

JOKE

[Charlemagne]

I think smear has reached its tipping point. It seems like smear campaigns back fire these days...

I honestly don't think they do. Clinton's smear network is very loose and decentralized so the campaign can sort of seemingly remain above it all. Nonetheless, stuff is thrown out there and sometimes it sticks. Obama's drug past is one example of an attempt to smear. They will continually send up smear "trial balloons" and if they backfire there is a quick retreat but sometimes an allegation has some momentum or the sheer weight of allegations just eventually begin to bog down the opponent. Just watch. Obama is going to soon find out what it is like to go up against the Clintons.

[mhaverty]

The Clinton smear team is going to make Obama wish he never ran for President. They are pretty much up there with Nixon' crowd and and Karl Rove.

Get liberals to believe this and win a prize.

If you could prove that Rove had 63 lumps of evil coal in his stocking they would gladly tell you the Clinonistas only have 62 and be proud of it.

[guest of a friend]

Get liberals to believe this and win a prize.

If you could prove that Rove had 63 lumps of evil coal in his stocking they would gladly tell you the Clinonistas only have 62 and be proud of it.

Uhh... well, I gotta say, the difference between the two is small but important.

Hillary might kill you, but Rove would kill you and then eat your soul.

Small but important.