Another blow to the global warming nuts Options

[T-Bone]

Can someone explain to me the point behind denying that global warming is occuring? If you are not part of an oil company, please explain what you have to gain by backing the notion that everything is okay with the planet and we should continue to pollute as much as possible.

[ImIdaho]

Dudes! It's okay, it'll all be over in 2012 anyway.

[mhaverty]

We find ourselves in agreement.

It doesn't matter where the money is coming from if you're letting it cloud your judgement. But if we're talking about the scientific community, specifically on this issue, I'll side with the side that considers it our responsibility to at lease TRY to stop royally screwing a planet that was doing pretty well for itself before we came along.

My problem with the opposing argument isn't that there is one - this is healthy. My problem is that I can't find a logical reason for it to exist other than to try to disrupt progress toward a cleaner planet capable of sustaining itself for a while. It seems like a child who has no viable reason to want his room dirty refusing to clean it up because one of his friends said there's nothing wrong with a dirty room, which fits happily into the kid's non-desire to pick up his toys and trash.

My problem is those who want to turn the whole world upside down based on a theory advanced by people who have their own aggendas.

[Jason Halogen]

Can someone explain to me the point behind denying that global warming is occuring? If you are not part of an oil company, please explain what you have to gain by backing the notion that everything is okay with the planet and we should continue to pollute as much as possible.

Right, except you're more to the point than I am.

[DanPM]

I have a plan to fill the hole in the ozone layer with the skulls of Iraqi children.

[Evil Eddie C]

Everyone knows it's sheep farts in New Zealand that is causing this whole mess. With a ten foot increase in Ocean level, my house in Everett is gonna be waterfront property, soon, so I say gas up those lawnmowers, people, we've got new beaches to make!

Global warming, in my estimation, is very similar to the existence of God - Everybody thinks they have a right to their opinion, but nobody else does, when all the while, no one really knows what the fuck is going on.

[T-Bone]

I have a plan to fill the hole in the ozone layer with the skulls of Iraqi children.

How's your progress on that idea?

This post has been edited by T-Bone: Oct 29 2007, 01:48 PM

[DanPM]

How your progress on that idea?

I have to finish my ladder to heaven first.

[Jason Halogen]

My problem is those who want to turn the whole world upside down based on a theory advanced by people who have their own aggendas.

It's understandable that this would upset you, but to follow through you'd have to abandon literally all political and social debate or activity of any real magnitude. Having the right idea doesn't make you rich enough to do anything about it.

I say, if there is disagreement, fine. But if one side wants us to clean up our mess and hope that is staves off environmental damage, I don't really see a problem with going along with that as it most f-ing certainly won't hurt anything.

[Postman Pat]

I say, if there is disagreement, fine. But if one side wants us to clean up our mess and hope that is staves off environmental damage, I don't really see a problem with going along with that as it most f-ing certainly won't hurt anything.

Sing it, sister!

[DanPM]

so is pollution bad or good? I'm confused

[T-Bone]

so is pollution bad or good? I'm confused

Pollution helps rich people, and is therefore good.

[JodyThePig]

My problem is those who want to turn the whole world upside down based on a theory advanced by people who have their own aggendas.

People who advocate reducing possible human contributions to global warming often have an agenda of wanting to reduce possible human contributions to global warming.

[ImIdaho]

I would think that liberal types would appreciate not being coerced into supporting something via lies/fabricated facts.

[mhaverty]

Can someone explain to me the point behind denying that global warming is occuring? If you are not part of an oil company, please explain what you have to gain by backing the notion that everything is okay with the planet and we should continue to pollute as much as possible.

Where have I ever denied that global warming is occurring?

Am I concerned about global warming and the environment? Of course I am. 100%. I do think it is very possible we are warming up the planet. However, I spent almost a decade of my life studying science and doing scientific research to see and learn enough about how the community works. I have some serious issues with how the global warming theory has developed and is being advanced. There is enough evidence to me that it is possible in a few decades we will look back at this and compare it to those who dared to question the earth as the center of the universe. Any scientist who questions global warming is in fact treated as a heretic. This is troubling to me. The fact is global warming grant money is equally corruptible as big oil money. The fact is that just 3000 years ago there wasn't one scintilla of ice on the poles. Just 30 years ago they were worried about an impending ice age. The climate of the earth has changed dozens of times over. Its called a cycle for a reason. Many of the ebbs and flows in the cycle occurred long before the internal combustion engine was invented.

I do know this. It is part of the human condition to fear change. The earth has and will constantly evolve and change. It did so for thousands and thousands of years before we grew out of it. It very well could be the sun has more impact on these changes than we could ever have. It could very well be that our actions in concert with the solar cycle are causing these changes. Nobody knows for sure. What I find comical though is the certainty to which global warming is seen as having a purely human causation. Ironic considering it is firmly entrenched in the leftists belief system that conservative thinking is the root cause of most global ills.

Dimmeno is right. Once people get something in their head they set out to prove it. Well the global warming herd have proved it to themselves but they have yet to prove it to me. Nothing more. Nothing less. Another Irony is that "question authority" is a major part of the leftist mindset... just don't dare to question their authority. Ever.

[mhaverty]

Can someone explain to me the point behind denying that global warming is occuring? If you are not part of an oil company, please explain what you have to gain by backing the notion that everything is okay with the planet and we should continue to pollute as much as possible.

Where have I ever denied that global warming is occurring?

Am I concerned about global warming and the environment? Of course I am. 100%. I do think it is very possible we are warming up the planet. However, I spent almost a decade of my life studying science and doing scientific research to see and learn enough about how the community works. I have some serious issues with how the global warming theory has developed and is being advanced. There is enough evidence to me that it is possible in a few decades we will look back at this and compare it to those who dared to question the earth as the center of the universe. Any scientist who questions global warming is in fact treated as a heretic. This is troubling to me. The fact is global warming grant money is equally corruptible as big oil money. The fact is that just 3000 years ago there wasn't one scintilla of ice on the poles. Just 30 years ago they were worried about an impending ice age. The climate of the earth has changed dozens of times over. Its called a cycle for a reason. Many of the ebbs and flows in the cycle occurred long before the internal combustion engine was invented.

I do know this. It is part of the human condition to fear change. The earth has and will constantly evolve and change. It did so for thousands and thousands of years before we grew out of it. It very well could be the sun has more impact on these changes than we could ever have. It could very well be that our actions in concert with the solar cycle are causing these changes. Nobody knows for sure. What I find comical though is the certainty to which global warming is seen as having a purely human causation. Ironic considering it is firmly entrenched in the leftists belief system that conservative thinking is the root cause of most global ills.

Dimmeno is right. Once people get something in their head they set out to prove it. Well the global warming herd have proved it to themselves but they have yet to prove it to me. Nothing more. Nothing less. Another Irony is that "question authority" is a major part of the leftist mindset... just don't dare to question their authority. Ever.

[T-Bone]

Am I concerned about global warming and the environment? Of course I am. 100%. I do think it is very possible we are warming up the planet.

If what you just said it true, then I think you actually agree with everyone in this thread.

As far as the rest of what you typed, I'm not sure it's really the BIG issue. The big issue, as I see it, is that whether or not we are in a "natural" cycle, we ARE contributing in some ways to the depletion of the ozone layer, smog, deforestation, yada, yada... Shit needs to stop or we are going to kill our chances at surviving on this rock.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's what 99% of the people who care about global warming are concerned about - simply doing what we can to prolong our own survival.

[RockZilla]

I'd like to introduce an element of rationality here.

There is a demonstrable global warming problem.

Getting hysterical about it will not solve it.

Stigmatizing people who point out the bad news as crackpots will not solve it.

Thinking about it can and hopefully will solve it.

This is one instance in which indulging in emotional showboating serves nobody.

Both sides need to tone down the hysteria and compromise on this issue.

I propose we treat the problem as though it were real, and work to gradually ramp down worldwide carbon emissions, which do nobody in the world the slightest bit of good.

That way, if it turns out that the fears of global warming were exaggerated, we will still have achieved a desirable outcome without breaking the bank.

And if the fears were not exaggerated, all the better.

Thank you, Dimenno. You said what I wanted to say, and you also miraculously did it in under 25,000 words.
(Why can't all your posts be this succinct?)

[mhaverty]

If what you just said it true, then I think you actually agree with everyone in this thread.

As far as the rest of what you typed, I'm not sure it's really the BIG issue. The big issue, as I see it, is that whether or not we are in a "natural" cycle, we ARE contributing in some ways to the depletion of the ozone layer, smog, deforestation, yada, yada... Shit needs to stop or we are going to kill our chances at surviving on this rock.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's what 99% of the people who care about global warming are concerned about - simply doing what we can to prolong our own survival.

Being concerned about somthing and wanting to take drastic measures based on theories are two very different things.

I think your 99% estimation is very very high. I think many people simply have made up their mind that our way of life is bad and want to enact their will and band aid solutions upon everybody else.

That is all well and good but good luck getting China to go along. Scientists estimated that it would take decades for them to surpass the United States in their produciton of "greenhouse gases" but the just blew past us in the last year. They produce 4 coal fired power plants a week. A week. A week. 4 a week. Their GDP continues at a 8% clip. The population of the world is expected to DOUBLE in short order. So we would need to cut consumption of fossil fuels by more than half just to keep pace in that segment of C02 production. That doesn't even take in to consideration the other means of C02 production outside of burning coal, gas, and oil.

Nuclear power anyone? Sure the waste is an issue but it seems to me that fucking up Yucca mountian pales in comparison to the alternatives if the human global warming theory is indeed true.

[Jason Halogen]

That is all well and good but good luck getting China to go along. Scientists estimated that it would take decades for them to surpass the United States in their produciton of "greenhouse gases" but the just blew past us in the last year.

Go China!

Nuclear power anyone? Sure the waste is an issue but it seems to me that fucking up Yucca mountian pales in comparison to the alternatives if the human global warming theory is indeed true.

No, too dangerous. Chernobyl, Hiroshima, blah blah blah. Mutants. Radiation Poisoning. Actually, mutants can be cool.

If opposed to it, can you explain to me why people are so opposed to things like solar/wind/hydro? I'd like an explanation that doesn't involve a crumbling economy. Those arguments are pretty short-sighted when you think about the hard fact that all fossil fuels will run out. I've never heard a solid pro-nuclear argument that didn't sound handed down, flimsy, and a little ignorant.

[T-Bone]

That is all well and good but good luck getting China to go along.

I agree but we're going to have to set an example before we can get on their ass about it.

As dimenno already said, cutting carbon emissions isn't going to hurt anyone in the long run, except oil companies and Saudi Arabia, and I'm sure they'll figure out a way to turn a buck on it somehow.

[Jason Halogen]

I agree but we're going to have to set an example before we can get on their ass about it.

As dimenno already said, cutting carbon emissions isn't going to hurt anyone in the long run, except oil companies and Saudi Arabia, and I'm sure they'll figure out a way to turn a buck on it somehow.

Part of my Grand Solution For Everything is to get oil companies to realize they're polishing the brass on the Titanic and get heavily into producing solar energy networks. I mean, just put some friggin' research money in and get it started. When the sun burns out we're fucked anyway, so why not use it for electricity? I'm sure it won't mind.

[Postman Pat]

Part of my Grand Solution For Everything is to get oil companies to realize they're polishing the brass on the Titanic and get heavily into producing solar energy networks. I mean, just put some friggin' research money in and get it started. When the sun burns out we're fucked anyway, so why not use it for electricity? I'm sure it won't mind.

You go, girl!

[ShempTheOtherStooge]

I'd like to introduce an element of rationality here.

There is a demonstrable global warming problem.

Getting hysterical about it will not solve it.

Stigmatizing people who point out the bad news as crackpots will not solve it.

Thinking about it can and hopefully will solve it.

This is one instance in which indulging in emotional showboating serves nobody.

Both sides need to tone down the hysteria and compromise on this issue.

I propose we treat the problem as though it were real, and work to gradually ramp down worldwide carbon emissions, which do nobody in the world the slightest bit of good.

That way, if it turns out that the fears of global warming were exaggerated, we will still have achieved a desirable outcome without breaking the bank.

And if the fears were not exaggerated, all the better.

There is global warming, but we don't know the cause, if it is a problem or if it will get worse. There are scientists who say it will increase the world's capacity to grow food. Dr gray says it is a matter of ocean salinity and that the current trend will reverse itself in the next couple of decades. The science is far from conclusive.

We do know that the largest contributor to greenhouses gases is third world agriculture. We do know that Al Gore's house consumes 30Xs the energy of the average american house. We do know that both Dianne Feinstein and Al Gore fly around the country/world in Gulfstream IV private jets that on a single coast to coast flight discharge more carbon into the atmosphere than the average american family discharges in a year. We do know that almost all the environmental grant money ($100s of millions ) is being thrown at scientists whose work supports the concept of manmade global warming. We do know that to offset the increase in Chinese coal burning over the next 20 years will require the removal of 15,000,000,000 Ford Explorers each driving 15,000 miles annually from the planet.

So given that the largest possible issues that may be causing the problem are not even within our grasp, it looks harder than trigonometry to a noiseboarder to solve the problem.

I'm all for energy independence, but the hypocrites on the left are driving me crazy. Tell Dianne and Al to cut their consumption and tell that fat fuck from Hyannis to vote in favor of the cape windfarm and maybe we can get somewhere.

This post has been edited by ShempTheOtherStooge: Oct 29 2007, 02:57 PM

[elk]

I was paying more than nominal attention fuckface:

So then you know that claiming "a weak hurricane season is proof that global warming is crap" is one of the dumbest statements ever made, correct? And is short, you just wanted to start a thread to get the negative attention that you crave, not because you had any solid point to make, correct?